Business of Esports - 241. Diablo Immortal Backlash, OWL & CDL In Vegas, Disney Metaverse Hire, Saudi Arabia Gaming Hype, JoyCon On iPhone, Luminosity Quits VALORANT, XSET Vegas Gaming Cabanas, Razer x TUMI

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Paul Dawalibi:

From the keyboard to the boardroom, this is the

Paul Dawalibi:

business of esports.

Paul Dawalibi:

The worlds of gaming and esports are evolving every day faster

Paul Dawalibi:

than ever before. With YouTube's living data, you can probe into

Paul Dawalibi:

the real thoughts and behaviors of esports fans and gamers

Paul Dawalibi:

worldwide. If you're a team, a brand, an agency or a rights

Paul Dawalibi:

holder, you should be talking with YouGov. They're partners

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with the biggest names in esports. And the biggest brands

Paul Dawalibi:

all around the world, driving compelling results every single

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day, check out youtube.com/bo E and schedule a call with YouGov.

Paul Dawalibi:

Today, from the keyboard to the boardroom. This is the business

Paul Dawalibi:

of esports weekly new show slash post post podcast live stream. I

Paul Dawalibi:

am Paul the profit that will lead me I'm joined today by my

Paul Dawalibi:

friends and CO hosts the Honorable Judge Jimmy brata.

Paul Dawalibi:

Lindsey the boss plus, Jeff the juice Cohen. For those of you

Paul Dawalibi:

who are new here, welcome. What we do is we cover the most

Paul Dawalibi:

pressing, gaming and esports topics news of the week. But we

Paul Dawalibi:

look at all of it through a business and C suite lens we

Paul Dawalibi:

dissect. We analyze the business implications of everything

Paul Dawalibi:

happening in this industry. And with the weekly new show

Paul Dawalibi:

festival. We get to do it live with you guys. You get to get in

Paul Dawalibi:

our faces, ask questions challenge us. We encourage it

Paul Dawalibi:

get involved. Leave comments. It's a safe space. You can ask

Paul Dawalibi:

anything you want. But if you want to lurk, that's okay, too.

Paul Dawalibi:

We still appreciate all of you being here. How are you guys

Paul Dawalibi:

doing this week? Lindsay, let's start with you.

Lindsay Poss:

Hey, everyone, I'm so excited to be joining you

Lindsay Poss:

from Costa Rica. Which is great. It's a beautiful country. The

Lindsay Poss:

hotel

Paul Dawalibi:

call on Lindsey working through hotel Wi Fi

Paul Dawalibi:

issues. Jimmy, are you guys doing?

Jeff Cohen:

We can't see you as you turn on your camera. That's

Jeff Cohen:

No, I'm good. Very good. Jimmy, you ready? Isn't your wedding

Jeff Cohen:

coming up? This weekend?

Jimmy Baratta:

It's this weekend. Getting ready that I

Jimmy Baratta:

missed the show last week and I'm sorry for that guys. We had

Jimmy Baratta:

a one of our last taste testings and then right. Right after it

Jimmy Baratta:

was a dance lessons just been busy getting ready, you know,

Jimmy Baratta:

with all the All that

Jeff Cohen:

said, Have you like lost a bunch of weight?

Jimmy Baratta:

Thank you lost a ton of weight. Yeah, I did this

Jimmy Baratta:

fasting diet developed by the USC longevity Institute. So you

Jimmy Baratta:

know, it's legit. My brother in law actually recommended it to

Jimmy Baratta:

me. And it's just been one of those things. So I appreciate

Jimmy Baratta:

you calling that out. Thank you.

Jeff Cohen:

Now it's like just awesome. The podcast diet. So

Jeff Cohen:

this is weird.

Jimmy Baratta:

It's what the people wanted. You know, this is

Jimmy Baratta:

crazy. I don't think you've ever been left with at home with

Jimmy Baratta:

Jeff. This is like a first

Jeff Cohen:

we're we're going to change this topic count

Jeff Cohen:

Bulldogs. The cattle. This car was rolling the wedding. Kerwin

Jeff Cohen:

does

Jimmy Baratta:

not I'm going to drop them off at the place where

Jimmy Baratta:

he gets groomed. They have like an overnight candle kind of

Jimmy Baratta:

thing. And that'll be for the best because he's a good boy.

Jimmy Baratta:

But I think what that many people get a little too excited.

Jimmy Baratta:

Yeah. Yeah. This is crazy, I guess. Without Paul here. I

Jimmy Baratta:

don't even know what we talked about. There's a lot of news

Jimmy Baratta:

going on this week. Big week. Sports News.

Jeff Cohen:

For esports news. Unfortunately, Paul doesn't

Jeff Cohen:

share the topics with us ahead of time. So we just have to chit

Jeff Cohen:

chat. Sorry.

Jimmy Baratta:

We took over Paul, this is now a bulldog

Jimmy Baratta:

channel.

Jeff Cohen:

Edit that out of the vaad.

Jimmy Baratta:

Listening they have no idea. They just think

Jimmy Baratta:

you and I just started talking about bulldogs and did it see

Jimmy Baratta:

all chop off stream for a minute.

Paul Dawalibi:

I'm so sorry guys. I am also streaming from

Paul Dawalibi:

my hotel room. And so we do have lots of lots of news this week

Paul Dawalibi:

to cover which I'm gonna get to just let me tease the podcast.

Paul Dawalibi:

We had Andy Ogletree on the podcast this week. He's the VP

Paul Dawalibi:

of gaming at sub nation. They're the agency of record for pub G

Paul Dawalibi:

esports. In North America, they're also creating their own

Paul Dawalibi:

esports League. So lots of interesting stuff there. I think

Paul Dawalibi:

most interesting of all, he used to be in Overwatch League so he

Paul Dawalibi:

was at Activision Blizzard. And before that he was at Hasbro,

Paul Dawalibi:

Mattel and a bunch of other non gaming but or gaming adjacent

Paul Dawalibi:

companies if you want to call it that. And so interesting

Paul Dawalibi:

background super interesting conversation. I definitely look

Paul Dawalibi:

forward to that episode this week. It's going to be a lot of

Paul Dawalibi:

fun. I guess I want to start with a bit of a softball here

Paul Dawalibi:

and that well maybe a bit of a softball and that is Diablo

Paul Dawalibi:

immortal, which you know is in the news and I think you know

Paul Dawalibi:

Jimmy and I we touched on it a little bit on the podcast but

Paul Dawalibi:

it's definitely worth a bit of a longer conversation here so let

Paul Dawalibi:

me I hope this doesn't break my connection again but let me

Paul Dawalibi:

share my screen here and and the headline here is Diablo immortal

Paul Dawalibi:

microtransactions have sparked a brutal backlash This is from PC

Paul Dawalibi:

gamer.com The aggressive push to sell in game items is not going

Paul Dawalibi:

over well on Reddit or Metacritic. It has a 0.6 score

Paul Dawalibi:

on Metacritic across 1700 user reviews just to be clear, and

Paul Dawalibi:

which is extremely low, basically zero. And I think the

Paul Dawalibi:

Much of the criticism is really about feeling like the game is

Paul Dawalibi:

pay to win. So to advance to get the best gear. Basically, you

Paul Dawalibi:

can pay for all of this, you can still play the game without

Paul Dawalibi:

paying. Blizzard has reiterated many times that you can get play

Paul Dawalibi:

all the content without ever spending a penny. But if you

Paul Dawalibi:

want the best gear, you want to play all the content faster you

Paul Dawalibi:

want to get through, you know the different raids essentially

Paul Dawalibi:

faster dungeons faster. You need the best gear and basically you

Paul Dawalibi:

need to pay for it. So what do you guys think? Has anyone

Paul Dawalibi:

actually played any Diablo immortal?

Jimmy Baratta:

I've been playing with it been playing? Probably I

Jimmy Baratta:

wouldn't imagine Jeff, have you been playing at all or? No?

Jimmy Baratta:

Yeah, so I've played quite a bit it's easy, you know, in bed to

Jimmy Baratta:

play on mobile for 2030 minutes before going to sleep or if I

Jimmy Baratta:

have something on the TV and I want to additional distraction

Jimmy Baratta:

from my distraction. I don't get what the fuss is about. It's

Jimmy Baratta:

easy enough and fun enough game. It's the typical Diablo story

Jimmy Baratta:

and lore and, and kind of feel to it. I had mentioned on the

Jimmy Baratta:

podcast, no spoilers here. But you know, I mentioned there as

Jimmy Baratta:

well in our intro that I played it and kind of enjoyed it. This

Jimmy Baratta:

is just a lot of people getting all up in arms over nothing.

Jimmy Baratta:

microtransactions are nothing, nothing new top tier, or having

Jimmy Baratta:

exclusive loot is nothing new. Now if you can't get comparable

Jimmy Baratta:

gear that you earn, that's a different story. Because there's

Jimmy Baratta:

always those divisions between people that earned their awesome

Jimmy Baratta:

skins their awesome, you know, legendary hero, or what have you

Jimmy Baratta:

versus ones that bought very cool ones. But you know, you,

Jimmy Baratta:

you can recognize this a paid item because that's, you know,

Jimmy Baratta:

that's that's what it is it only works like that. But I think

Jimmy Baratta:

that, you know, I had some other friends too, that I played with

Jimmy Baratta:

that were like, Oh, I don't know if I'm going to end up playing

Jimmy Baratta:

this much longer, because I just read that it costs 100 grand to

Jimmy Baratta:

fully max out for end game. And I did a little research I said

Jimmy Baratta:

no, you can have a good time and not spend a penny, this is

Jimmy Baratta:

nothing new. This is how they monetize. And there might be

Jimmy Baratta:

some cool stuff that you act, you might want to you know, it's

Jimmy Baratta:

a free game. So you're essentially saving however many

Jimmy Baratta:

dollars, you might want to spend some of that to make your guy

Jimmy Baratta:

look cool if you get bored with with the appearance of your

Jimmy Baratta:

character after a while. So it's just it's really inflammatory

Jimmy Baratta:

when it doesn't need to be. And I was not the biggest Diablo fan

Jimmy Baratta:

either. And I was actually pretty pleased with it. So take

Jimmy Baratta:

that for what it's worth, I guess,

Paul Dawalibi:

the free game and you all have phones, right?

Jeff Cohen:

So it's so predictable. I mean, we knew

Jeff Cohen:

that this was going to be the take, even if they basically put

Jeff Cohen:

no monetization at all, you know, this was going to be the

Jeff Cohen:

take from you know, the people who put out these outrage takes

Jeff Cohen:

and the people who get on Reddit and just just want to be angry

Jeff Cohen:

about things. To Jimmy's point, you know, it's a free game, you

Jeff Cohen:

can play it entirely free. You could play all the content free.

Jeff Cohen:

So this is the business model of mobile. I mean, mobile games

Jeff Cohen:

have these this deep, kind of like spend depth that you can

Jeff Cohen:

spend. I remember when I covered Glu Mobile as an analyst, they

Jeff Cohen:

were talking the CEO told me one time in a meeting that they had

Jeff Cohen:

their highest spend player in their MLB tap sports baseball

Jeff Cohen:

game spent $370,000 One year, which is insane in you know,

Jeff Cohen:

mobile baseball game, but you know what this guy was, I guess

Jeff Cohen:

he was like, CEO of some biopharma company or something

Jeff Cohen:

like that. And he just really liked the game. And that was

Jeff Cohen:

like his hobby. And he just, it wasn't like predatory. I think

Jeff Cohen:

he just really enjoyed, you know, leaving his guild or

Jeff Cohen:

whatnot. So that is the business model of mobile, right? Very few

Jeff Cohen:

people pay. And then there are some whales that are happy and

Jeff Cohen:

willing to pay, you know, a ton of money. So I don't really view

Jeff Cohen:

it as a problem. You know, when you get into the slot machine

Jeff Cohen:

mechanics and a bit more of like the gotcha mechanics where it

Jeff Cohen:

can create like, habitual you know, addictive tendencies,

Jeff Cohen:

that's where it gets a little bit, a little bit more. I guess

Jeff Cohen:

shady in my mind But, you know, I don't I don't necessarily

Jeff Cohen:

think that's that's really the case here with Diablo immortal.

Jeff Cohen:

And then the last thing I'll say is I, it was fun it's stupid

Jeff Cohen:

when you see articles where it's like, well if you wanted to buy

Jeff Cohen:

every single thing in the game, it's going to cost you 100

Jeff Cohen:

grand. It's like well, that's like saying like, well I don't

Jeff Cohen:

like Walmart because I walk into a Walmart buy one of every item

Jeff Cohen:

like it's going to cost me a lot of money. You know, that's, it's

Jeff Cohen:

not really analogous, right or saying I'm gonna go to a

Jeff Cohen:

baseball game and I'm so mad at the baseball team. Because if I

Jeff Cohen:

wanted to buy one of every Jersey in the fan store, one of

Jeff Cohen:

every piece of food and like one of everything I could buy, like

Jeff Cohen:

it's going to cost a lot of money. It's not really the point

Jeff Cohen:

of the entertainment product to buy everything in the game, per

Jeff Cohen:

se.

Paul Dawalibi:

Was the I don't know if you have any thoughts on

Paul Dawalibi:

this.

Lindsay Poss:

I mean, I am a mobile gamer. So I definitely

Lindsay Poss:

the wrong person to ask about the outrage on this. And I think

Lindsay Poss:

Jimmy and Jeff kind of covered all the points there. So I Yeah,

Lindsay Poss:

it is predictable, but I don't think it's warranted.

Paul Dawalibi:

I mean, I think you guys are all horribly wrong.

Paul Dawalibi:

I mean, the the this is the kind of outrage that needs to happen

Paul Dawalibi:

and I frankly think it's not happening enough because this is

Paul Dawalibi:

the slippery slope I talked about years ago, literally years

Paul Dawalibi:

ago on this podcast. And and it's coming to fruition and it's

Paul Dawalibi:

not good for gaming it's not good for gamers it's not good

Paul Dawalibi:

for anyone really like the the the cheapening a game by making

Paul Dawalibi:

it pay to win, which is what Diablo immortal is this is pay

Paul Dawalibi:

to win. Pure and simple. You want to do better, you can pay

Paul Dawalibi:

to do better, it's not you want to look a little bit cooler, you

Paul Dawalibi:

can pay for a cosmetic that's not what this is. This is paid

Paul Dawalibi:

with you can the old the best gear this gems, whatever, like

Paul Dawalibi:

the best gear you can get in the game are all are all behind

Paul Dawalibi:

paywalls not, you know not not easily obtainable in game, it

Paul Dawalibi:

takes 100 times the amount of time in game played casually

Paul Dawalibi:

versus paying for it. And I I've heard some reasonable takes

Paul Dawalibi:

saying, you know, maybe the delta between the pay to win and

Paul Dawalibi:

the free to play is too big here. And that's part of the

Paul Dawalibi:

problem, right? Like, the free to play. If it takes you five

Paul Dawalibi:

times longer than the pay to win game. Maybe that's acceptable,

Paul Dawalibi:

but 100 times longer feels feels abusive. And and so, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

maybe there's an easy solution like that. I just, I don't know,

Paul Dawalibi:

I personally hold Blizzard to a higher standard. And I think we

Paul Dawalibi:

have to Blizzard since the early 2000s has always always made the

Paul Dawalibi:

best games. That's just their DNA as a company. They made the

Paul Dawalibi:

best games. Diablo immortal is a stain on that record. I think

Paul Dawalibi:

it's shameful. I think it's it's awful for gaming. And I think

Paul Dawalibi:

the outrage is justified here and the outrage to me has to

Paul Dawalibi:

destroy this game. I think if Blizzard makes money on this

Paul Dawalibi:

game, we will be worse off as an industry now. I think it will

Paul Dawalibi:

make money because it's been designed to make money and

Paul Dawalibi:

designed to lower players in and get them to spend money. And

Paul Dawalibi:

we've seen games like this be successful. Very recently lost

Paul Dawalibi:

ark. People pouring tons of money into this same pay to win

Paul Dawalibi:

mechanics against impact people pouring tons of money into this

Paul Dawalibi:

same pay to win mechanics. And all the effort that went into

Paul Dawalibi:

Diablo immortal could have gone into Diablo four in my mind and

Paul Dawalibi:

built an actually good game. I just I see. I see the the you

Paul Dawalibi:

know, it's like when people see looting in the streets and you

Paul Dawalibi:

go This is civilization coming to an end. Right? Like it's sort

Paul Dawalibi:

of one of the signs that proper gaming is coming to an end.

Lindsay Poss:

Wow, that's definitely not extreme.

Paul Dawalibi:

Robert Hello, welcome. Chris says Steven A

Paul Dawalibi:

that will leave you over here. We forget about Diablo three

Paul Dawalibi:

auction house a mortal isn't that bad. But like, Guys, I

Paul Dawalibi:

mean, feel free to disagree. But the apologists are the worst

Paul Dawalibi:

part of this. Like, it's not that bad. It's not that bad.

Paul Dawalibi:

Like, this is the slippery slope we end up on right? If

Paul Dawalibi:

everything's not that bad, it gets slit, like incrementally

Paul Dawalibi:

worse and worse over time. Every game is a little bit worse than

Paul Dawalibi:

the next than the last. I mean, and every time we just apologize

Paul Dawalibi:

for it. It's not that bad. I mean, why can't we demand more

Paul Dawalibi:

from the games we play and spend money on? I don't

Jeff Cohen:

know. I mean, would it be better if they made it a

Jeff Cohen:

paid game and made it like cost $75

Paul Dawalibi:

If it was a $75 experience, sure, and there were

Paul Dawalibi:

no pay to win mechanics. I think that's absolutely better or free

Paul Dawalibi:

to play. And the only mechanics are like the only paid mechanics

Paul Dawalibi:

are cosmetic. That to me is acceptable also But the pay to

Paul Dawalibi:

win mechanics to me is has always been a bridge too far. I

Paul Dawalibi:

don't know. And guys and Chad, I mean, Chris, clearly disagree. I

Paul Dawalibi:

don't know, Robert, if you disagree, mostly

Jeff Cohen:

PvE writers in PvP

Paul Dawalibi:

mostly PvE PvE

Jeff Cohen:

doesn't matter. So why does it necessarily matter

Jeff Cohen:

that it's pay to win? Like, the way I view that is, the game is

Jeff Cohen:

if you don't want to pay, you're just gonna take us longer to

Jeff Cohen:

beat the game, which is fine. Because if you enjoy the game,

Jeff Cohen:

you're just playing it for longer. If you don't enjoy the

Jeff Cohen:

game, well, you should stop playing it because you're not

Jeff Cohen:

enjoying it. And if you're if you want to win faster, then pay

Jeff Cohen:

like. And if you don't want to pay because you either can't

Jeff Cohen:

afford it or don't want to pay then either keep playing the

Jeff Cohen:

game, or don't keep playing the game. But I don't know this,

Jeff Cohen:

this tendency to be like, I need to go on Reddit and complain

Jeff Cohen:

about this free product that wants me to keep playing it for

Jeff Cohen:

longer, or pay to play shorter. It's like, well, here's the

Jeff Cohen:

third option. Just don't play it. And don't go on Reddit and

Jeff Cohen:

complain about it. Like there is a third option here.

Paul Dawalibi:

I agree. I agree. And I think the third option is

Paul Dawalibi:

what most gamers should choose and send the clear message that

Paul Dawalibi:

this is not this is not the kind of game people want. I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

know. But I agree there is a third option with your your

Paul Dawalibi:

dollars. Absolutely. That I totally agree with. All right,

Paul Dawalibi:

guys, let's let's move on here. We have lots of news to get

Paul Dawalibi:

through. And I want to talk about hold on sorry. share my

Paul Dawalibi:

screen here what is this? Let's talk about Paris, Overwatch

Paul Dawalibi:

League and Call of Duty League teams because I thought this was

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting.

Lindsay Poss:

Hilton has a lot more.

Paul Dawalibi:

I'm sorry to disappoint Lindsey

Unknown:

Lindsey from

Paul Dawalibi:

but this is the first I have seen this. Maybe

Paul Dawalibi:

the second time I've seen this I think to my knowledge, and I

Paul Dawalibi:

thought it was interesting. The headline here Paris Overwatch

Paul Dawalibi:

League and Call of Duty League teams announced pending moves to

Paul Dawalibi:

Las Vegas. So pretty, pretty self explanatory in the title.

Paul Dawalibi:

Starting in 2023. The Paris have franchises for Overwatch League

Paul Dawalibi:

and Call of Duty League, which are owned by dem esports.

Paul Dawalibi:

They're relocating to Nevada to Las Vegas. So the Paris Legion

Paul Dawalibi:

and the Paris eternal are all going to be the are now going to

Paul Dawalibi:

be the Vegas Legion in Vegas eternal. Now, the Legion, our

Paul Dawalibi:

last place in the Call of Duty League and the eternal are tied

Paul Dawalibi:

for last place right now in the Overwatch League. What do we

Paul Dawalibi:

make guys? So we've talked, I don't want to go down the rabbit

Paul Dawalibi:

hole of like the viability of city based, you know, leaves,

Paul Dawalibi:

but what do we make of seeing some of these franchises now

Paul Dawalibi:

changing cities? And what do we think the reasoning might be

Paul Dawalibi:

behind that, like, ownership isn't changing here? At least

Paul Dawalibi:

that's not not mentioned at all in the article? So I assume it's

Paul Dawalibi:

not changing? Why change cities? What, what do we think they

Paul Dawalibi:

benefit here? Or how do we think they benefit here?

Jeff Cohen:

Teams change cities in other leagues all the time.

Jeff Cohen:

So that doesn't, that part of it doesn't like outreach or or sort

Jeff Cohen:

of like, shocked me. I wonder if I guess there's there's two

Jeff Cohen:

scenarios that it could be one, it's, you know, it never really

Jeff Cohen:

clicked in Paris, and they want to move to Las Vegas to get sort

Jeff Cohen:

of a fresh start to try to build the brand and kind of build the

Jeff Cohen:

local community, which I think is actually probably not a

Jeff Cohen:

terrible idea. I mean, Las Vegas has a pretty good esports

Jeff Cohen:

culture, you already have the esports stadium there. So you

Jeff Cohen:

know, maybe they can kind of build build something with that.

Jeff Cohen:

The second potential scenario, which I think would be a little

Jeff Cohen:

bit more dire, and and frankly, kind of embarrassing, is if

Jeff Cohen:

they're moving from from Paris, just to save costs on like

Jeff Cohen:

flights back and forth to the US, like, you know, like it

Jeff Cohen:

might just be the league trying to cut costs, like, it is not

Jeff Cohen:

cheap to run a like multi continent League, particularly

Jeff Cohen:

with different time zones. You have fans like how are you going

Jeff Cohen:

to watch a live game if you're in Paris, and the game starts at

Jeff Cohen:

eight o'clock at night here? Like, there are just logistical

Jeff Cohen:

things that make it there's a reason why there's almost no

Jeff Cohen:

sports leagues that are truly global. Because the sports are

Jeff Cohen:

made to watch live, and that doesn't work across across the

Jeff Cohen:

globe. So it might just be that or it might just be a cost

Jeff Cohen:

cutting thing, which

Lindsay Poss:

just gets one job headquartered in France and

Lindsay Poss:

suddenly he's a Parisian Logistica

Paul Dawalibi:

Did you ever have a better idea on why they why

Paul Dawalibi:

they would move and do you think this will this This changes

Paul Dawalibi:

anything, do we see more of these teams moving like most,

Paul Dawalibi:

like mobility between cities to just point happens a lot in

Paul Dawalibi:

traditional sports? So will we see it more and esports?

Lindsay Poss:

I have a slightly different take. If they were

Lindsay Poss:

moving to a different US based study, I would, I wouldn't think

Lindsay Poss:

much of it. But I, I think that a lot of teams are struggling to

Lindsay Poss:

monetize. And one of the best ways to monetize is through

Lindsay Poss:

wagering. And what better city to introduce her during than in

Lindsay Poss:

Las Vegas. But I think that there's a potential that more

Lindsay Poss:

and more teams are looking for wagering based options as a way

Lindsay Poss:

to like kind of not only improve fan engagement, but to to

Lindsay Poss:

actually monetize and particularly in Overwatch League

Lindsay Poss:

work, are struggling with that and sponsors are pulling out, it

Lindsay Poss:

may just make more sense to move to a city where that's easier.

Lindsay Poss:

If they're moving to another city, I would, I would think it

Lindsay Poss:

was more strategic or more of a kind of similar thing to

Lindsay Poss:

professional sports really move cities based on fan engagement

Lindsay Poss:

or whatever. But I would, I would wager that this has to do

Lindsay Poss:

a lot with betting and kind of a hostile but not as rich

Lindsay Poss:

environment in Paris for those kinds of activities.

Paul Dawalibi:

Super interesting thought did not even think of

Paul Dawalibi:

the betting angle. What's really interesting. Adam, by the way,

Paul Dawalibi:

says Happy Wednesday. Happy Wednesday. Adam, great to have

Paul Dawalibi:

you here was not a podcast till you got here. Jimmy, Will was

Paul Dawalibi:

this mean that there's not an audience for Call of Duty league

Paul Dawalibi:

or Overwatch League in Europe? Like, is this too big of a

Paul Dawalibi:

conclusion that maybe this is not the best market for those

Paul Dawalibi:

franchises for these for this IP.

Jimmy Baratta:

That was my line of thinking. But I think you

Jimmy Baratta:

kind of phrase in a bolder way than I would have. I just think

Jimmy Baratta:

for these leaves. In particular Jeff's comment, perhaps about

Jimmy Baratta:

costs and allocating resources as well as timing and scheduling

Jimmy Baratta:

seem to be important. But what I what I love Lindsay's insight,

Jimmy Baratta:

too about bedding. But what I thought was, well, maybe Paris

Jimmy Baratta:

wasn't a good fit for them. But then again, you're looking at

Jimmy Baratta:

this league that seems to be and I know you didn't want to get to

Jimmy Baratta:

the geographic kind of conversation. But they wrongly

Jimmy Baratta:

assumed that geography has a big part of fan bases and creating

Jimmy Baratta:

followings. And they think that they can create that fan base

Jimmy Baratta:

easier in Las Vegas. Now I'm a huge proponent of Vegas, having

Jimmy Baratta:

a major team of every sport, I think Vegas needs to have one,

Jimmy Baratta:

it's just that type of quotes. But to think that they're going

Jimmy Baratta:

to have any more success in Las Vegas than they did in Paris is

Jimmy Baratta:

not going to be the case unless there are other mechanisms at

Jimmy Baratta:

play, such as gambling sponsors, and partners like twinsies point

Jimmy Baratta:

and a cheaper cost by participating to Jeff's point.

Jimmy Baratta:

So I just I think that those are going to help solve the problem.

Jimmy Baratta:

But those aren't addressing the root of the problem, which is

Jimmy Baratta:

they're still approaching this as we need to tackle our city

Jimmy Baratta:

and our local fans and create this fan base of people because

Jimmy Baratta:

we're geographically located. They're not because they like us

Jimmy Baratta:

for our wacky streamers, or, you know, what, one of the hundreds

Jimmy Baratta:

of number of reasons that people choose to follow esports brands

Jimmy Baratta:

that transcend geographic barriers. So I think it's just

Jimmy Baratta:

that they didn't have success in Paris, and that they're hoping

Jimmy Baratta:

to find better success in a more younger city or more. Perhaps

Jimmy Baratta:

this is an American centric thing. It's I just don't think

Jimmy Baratta:

they're going to find that success unless they address the

Jimmy Baratta:

root of the problem.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's a good point, Adam says Paris Legion

Paul Dawalibi:

has been the bottom of the CDL each year, tough to build a fan

Paul Dawalibi:

base with new branding and losing teams. This is true. I

Paul Dawalibi:

mean, it felt it feels like a little bit of a bandaid, right?

Paul Dawalibi:

Like maybe that'll fix things if we just move the city. Chris

Paul Dawalibi:

says there will be more interested in Wayne Gretzky's

Paul Dawalibi:

lacrosse team than the Overwatch League CDL team here in Vegas,

Paul Dawalibi:

they came here to save on state taxes. I mean, if that's

Paul Dawalibi:

actually the reason that's incredibly disappointing, right?

Paul Dawalibi:

If it's really just about saving on taxes, that that would be

Paul Dawalibi:

incredibly disappointing. But does anyone feel like these

Paul Dawalibi:

teams are all just ignoring like fixing the actual problems and

Paul Dawalibi:

it's all just trying random things like we've seen an Xbox

Paul Dawalibi:

like total failed organization. Attempt to rebrand to a brand

Paul Dawalibi:

had already failed like this. There's seems to be no effort or

Paul Dawalibi:

minimal effort to try and fix the problems. And just like, you

Paul Dawalibi:

know, these token moves, hoping something different will happen.

Paul Dawalibi:

I personally don't think moving either of these, like these

Paul Dawalibi:

franchises from Paris to Las Vegas is going to make any

Paul Dawalibi:

difference. And if anything, it feels like Paris is a less Oh,

Paul Dawalibi:

On less competitive esports town like there's more, they're more

Paul Dawalibi:

likely to get to build a fan base there. I would think

Jeff Cohen:

it was Vegas esports teams.

Paul Dawalibi:

I mean, one theory I had this is real

Paul Dawalibi:

tinfoil hat. I don't have my I don't have my button. But like,

Paul Dawalibi:

Could it be that the parent org of of these two teams which has

Paul Dawalibi:

money, right that's backed by a wealthy individual or ultra high

Paul Dawalibi:

net worth individual? Maybe they're buying allied esports

Paul Dawalibi:

esports assets. And, you know, they move into the stadium

Paul Dawalibi:

there. I don't know. tinfoil hat theory,

Jimmy Baratta:

attractive, works with traditional sports, right

Jimmy Baratta:

when they have a stadium to go to. And to just question real

Jimmy Baratta:

quick, they have the Las Vegas Inferno and Dark Zero esports

Jimmy Baratta:

are both like, yeah, I might be missing one or two. But I know

Jimmy Baratta:

if those two Oh, yeah, Chris got it, too. Thank you, Chris.

Paul Dawalibi:

Chris, this

Jeff Cohen:

is our Vegas guy. I knew he was gonna answer that.

Paul Dawalibi:

Versus All kidding aside would be cool to

Paul Dawalibi:

see TSM FTX. Pick up the teams. I mean, with Don't you think

Paul Dawalibi:

they would sell them before they move them instead of moving them

Paul Dawalibi:

then sell them? Chris is not that tin foil, that spot is

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely up for sale? And absolutely. I mean, Allied has

Paul Dawalibi:

said publicly they want to sell off the sports assets. Maybe

Paul Dawalibi:

that's the sort of the two pieces they're trying to put

Paul Dawalibi:

together. And that maybe makes sense, right? Because now you

Paul Dawalibi:

have a place to do watch parties and home stands and, you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

regular all kinds of regular events around the teams. Maybe

Paul Dawalibi:

that works.

Jeff Cohen:

I think it's a good idea. I mean, I don't think it's

Jeff Cohen:

gonna save the team or save the league or anything like that.

Jeff Cohen:

But I think it makes sense to have a team in Vegas. Doesn't

Jeff Cohen:

make a ton of sense to have a team in Europe like I just don't

Jeff Cohen:

know.

Paul Dawalibi:

It's a different league. Yeah, yeah. All right,

Paul Dawalibi:

guys. Let's talk about Disney Disney in the news. Disney

Paul Dawalibi:

hires. This is from variety. Disney hires Apple games. Exec

Paul Dawalibi:

Mark bows on to head Metaverse creative strategy. So Disney

Paul Dawalibi:

hired Mark boasts on a top gaming executive from Apple as a

Paul Dawalibi:

senior creative leader for its cross divisional next generation

Paul Dawalibi:

storytelling initiative that's all in capitals, which

Paul Dawalibi:

encompasses Disney's Metaverse ambitions. So Bose on was at

Paul Dawalibi:

Apple for 12 years. He you know, he tweeted that he was heading

Paul Dawalibi:

to his absolute dream job. He was the Creative Director for

Paul Dawalibi:

Apple arcade, which is Apple's game subscription service. And

Paul Dawalibi:

he's going to be working for Disney's SVP of next generation

Paul Dawalibi:

storytelling and consumer experiences. So Disney plucking

Paul Dawalibi:

a gaming executive from Apple. And the reason I wanted to talk

Paul Dawalibi:

about this is I'm curious what you guys think of, you know, we

Paul Dawalibi:

we don't often put apple at the top of the gaming sort of

Paul Dawalibi:

pyramid and, and Disney who could, I would I would assume,

Paul Dawalibi:

get anyone they wanted? Is anyone surprised they hired from

Paul Dawalibi:

apple instead of from an EA or an Activision Blizzard or for

Paul Dawalibi:

from any of these other companies, where you may have a

Paul Dawalibi:

much deeper gaming talent, and I don't want to take anything away

Paul Dawalibi:

from Mark Boson or Apple arcade or anything like that, but it's

Paul Dawalibi:

not sort of one of the typical suspects. Anyone have thoughts

Paul Dawalibi:

on this higher and the direction Disney's maybe thinking of going

Paul Dawalibi:

with this?

Jeff Cohen:

I could have sworn Disney hired like a Metaverse

Jeff Cohen:

guy because we talked about Disney like because my my take

Jeff Cohen:

was like, well, Disney's to get into gaming. Like, why are they

Jeff Cohen:

focused on Metaverse like, so I'll get I guess that's my take

Jeff Cohen:

again, I don't know how this Metaverse guy is different than

Jeff Cohen:

the last Metaverse guy. But they should really acquire YAY or

Jeff Cohen:

someone that oh, so there. Okay, so it was

Paul Dawalibi:

Mike. They hired Mike White. Okay, he hired Mark

Paul Dawalibi:

bows on the hire you were telling you that? Yes. Mike

Paul Dawalibi:

White didn't come from Apple. And I thought that was maybe the

Paul Dawalibi:

interesting.

Jeff Cohen:

You know, I don't necessarily given I don't know,

Jeff Cohen:

this guy, Mark goes on the background. It's hard to

Jeff Cohen:

comment. Obviously, clearly, he's done pretty well to be a

Jeff Cohen:

senior executive at Apple and now a senior executive at

Jeff Cohen:

Disney. So Far be it me to comment on his background or

Jeff Cohen:

anything like that. But I think your point is an interesting one

Jeff Cohen:

where maybe we underrate how big apple is in games is largely

Jeff Cohen:

more on the distribution side, but I think, you know, they are

Jeff Cohen:

probably by revenue, the largest gaming company out there if you

Jeff Cohen:

want to include the App Store revenue, which I don't

Jeff Cohen:

necessarily think you should but I see it included a lot of like

Jeff Cohen:

new charts and stuff like that. Apple Arcade is interesting. I

Jeff Cohen:

mean, I would say from external perspective, I don't know that

Jeff Cohen:

it's a project that's done super well, but I bet the numbers are

Jeff Cohen:

are quite good. Just because it's Apple like, they seem to do

Jeff Cohen:

well with, you know, just everything, even their scale.

Paul Dawalibi:

So just to be just a point of clarification it

Paul Dawalibi:

says Bose on before joining apple in 2010 he worked as a

Paul Dawalibi:

freelance game designer and producer. And was IGN Nintendo

Paul Dawalibi:

editor. So has gaming chops for sure. Can I just take a

Paul Dawalibi:

different lens on this? And for Lindsay or for Jimmy, whoever

Paul Dawalibi:

wants to comment? Does this like Apple has is if not one of the

Paul Dawalibi:

richest, the richest company on the planet, right in terms of

Paul Dawalibi:

cash reserves, you would assume they have the ability to retain

Paul Dawalibi:

any kind of talent they want. Can we assume from this that

Paul Dawalibi:

maybe their gaming ambitions aren't that great? You know,

Paul Dawalibi:

we've talked about them potentially buying yeh or at

Paul Dawalibi:

least that was my sort of preference. But letting a guy

Paul Dawalibi:

like this go senior gaming guy who has been with the company 12

Paul Dawalibi:

years? Yeah, can can we conclude that maybe Apple doesn't have

Paul Dawalibi:

great gaming or Metaverse ambitions? Or is that too far of

Paul Dawalibi:

a stretch?

Jimmy Baratta:

I haven't shown any inclination. You know, like,

Jimmy Baratta:

we keep wondering who's gonna buy EA, we thought Apple was a

Jimmy Baratta:

good fit. Apple is slow to move in. I mean, let me take that

Jimmy Baratta:

back. Because we do have the VR headset right that they're

Jimmy Baratta:

coming out with. And that's a pretty

Paul Dawalibi:

delayed. We don't know when it's coming out. And

Jimmy Baratta:

but they're still doing it, or they're still

Jimmy Baratta:

looking at it. supply chain issues are something that I

Jimmy Baratta:

think we all understand because of COVID. I think a lot of

Jimmy Baratta:

people might use that still as an excuse when it might not not

Jimmy Baratta:

be for other reasons, but at least it's an accepted and

Jimmy Baratta:

understandable thing. But regardless, Apple is getting

Jimmy Baratta:

into the metaverse and into virtual games with that headset,

Jimmy Baratta:

and to the points that you guys made earlier. You know, the

Jimmy Baratta:

Arcade is pretty massive. If you have a pretty loyal mobile

Jimmy Baratta:

following an apple arcade following on Apple TVs, it's

Jimmy Baratta:

just I think, for us that are true. Seriously, true gamers,

Jimmy Baratta:

hardcore gamers, people that grew up with controllers in

Jimmy Baratta:

hand, people that grew up on mouse and keyboard, we just for

Jimmy Baratta:

whatever reason, don't take apple gaming all that seriously,

Jimmy Baratta:

because it's more for that passive crowd. So it's hard for

Jimmy Baratta:

me to accept the higher because if it was not not for

Jimmy Baratta:

qualification, or for personal reasons, but just because of the

Jimmy Baratta:

name, which again, very well known brand, as a synergy

Jimmy Baratta:

between Apple and Disney. But if this was a hire from an

Jimmy Baratta:

Activision Blizzard, or somewhere else of that caliber,

Jimmy Baratta:

it would be the kind of thing that we would say, Okay, this is

Jimmy Baratta:

great, you know, it makes a lot of sense. But then here, Paul,

Jimmy Baratta:

you're diving into like the IGN and the Nintendo stuff, and

Jimmy Baratta:

you're kind of selling me more on them. Nothing against the

Jimmy Baratta:

guy, nothing against the higher, but it was just, it wasn't where

Jimmy Baratta:

my mind would have first went, if you told me that Disney was

Jimmy Baratta:

hiring someone for this role, you know, Apple would not be on

Jimmy Baratta:

my top 10 list of companies that I would have looked at or would

Jimmy Baratta:

have guessed, for where or where that person would have been

Jimmy Baratta:

from. And I think that's what I'm trying to reconcile here is

Jimmy Baratta:

not the story, or the excitement or whether or not they'll

Jimmy Baratta:

succeed. It was just Oh, that's really not what I had expected.

Jimmy Baratta:

Or, you know, yeah.

Lindsay Poss:

But I disagree with that a little only because

Lindsay Poss:

I think that Disney is more likely to go after the kind of

Lindsay Poss:

casual player. And I don't know much about what Apple does. But

Lindsay Poss:

something like an apple arcade, especially something like that

Lindsay Poss:

geared towards kids based on a lot of the IP that Disney

Lindsay Poss:

already has. Seems like it would be pretty compelling from a

Lindsay Poss:

business standpoint, so I could definitely see what you're

Lindsay Poss:

saying, Jim. But this makes sense. I mean, this this is this

Lindsay Poss:

is the same thing like Netflix is doing right like this is

Lindsay Poss:

dipping a toe into the casual gaming market rather than full

Lindsay Poss:

fledged going in and buying a triple A publisher. Do I

Lindsay Poss:

necessarily think that that's the right move for Disney? I

Lindsay Poss:

don't I don't think so. But given this guy's enthusiasm and

Lindsay Poss:

how seriously he takes his role in the fact that we don't

Lindsay Poss:

necessarily I don't have a great grasp on Apple or numbers or how

Lindsay Poss:

well it how popular it is with a casual audience. There might be

Lindsay Poss:

like a real selling point to that story for Disney and and to

Lindsay Poss:

get those more casual gamers.

Paul Dawalibi:

This makes me a little bit more concerned for

Paul Dawalibi:

Apple's sort of place in the gaming world. I think more than

Paul Dawalibi:

anything. I'm questioning Disney's hire really right

Paul Dawalibi:

there. They're getting a guy who has a ton of experience and

Paul Dawalibi:

comes from a blue chip company like that's an easy hire to

Paul Dawalibi:

defend. It's more apple letting the guy go to Disney makes me

Paul Dawalibi:

wonder what Apple's ambitions or lack of ambitions really are.

Paul Dawalibi:

I'm Astra fell says Why did video Astra fell I think Lindsay

Paul Dawalibi:

is in a hotel room, which is why you can't see her and says

Paul Dawalibi:

What's this about? We were talking about Disney hiring an

Paul Dawalibi:

executive gaming executive from Apple hardware BBQ says an apple

Paul Dawalibi:

a day keeps the games away. I mean, it's unfortunate Because I

Paul Dawalibi:

continue to say they could be a great gaming platform and in

Paul Dawalibi:

fact I have a I will have a one quick more apple and gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

story coming up. But I want to do this one first guys, and this

Paul Dawalibi:

is a series of stories. And, and, you know, let's talk about

Paul Dawalibi:

them sort of all together. So I'm going to present a few

Paul Dawalibi:

stories all together here. And the first is Saudi Arabia's Piaf

Paul Dawalibi:

acquires $1 billion stake in Sweden's embracer gaming group.

Paul Dawalibi:

So savvy gaming group, which is a unit of the kingdom sovereign

Paul Dawalibi:

wealth fund, continues to invest in the games and esports

Paul Dawalibi:

industry they acquired an 8.1% stake, worth a billion dollars

Paul Dawalibi:

in Swedish gaming business embracer group embracer group

Paul Dawalibi:

owns a bunch of gaming publishers for the most part.

Paul Dawalibi:

They also as we have previously discussed on the podcast,

Paul Dawalibi:

acquired this Piaf, the Saudi sovereign Investment Fund, a 5%

Paul Dawalibi:

stake in Nintendo. They bought ESL gaming they bought face it.

Paul Dawalibi:

So another billion dollar investment from the savvy gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

group out of Saudi Arabia. I want to put this next to this

Paul Dawalibi:

story, which is Saudi Arabia set for gamers eight biggest esports

Paul Dawalibi:

and gaming event worldwide with $15 million prize pool on offer

Paul Dawalibi:

eight starting international artists appearing across eight

Paul Dawalibi:

weeks this summer. So it's gonna run eight weeks over the summer,

Paul Dawalibi:

it's going to be what they call the biggest esports and gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

event worldwide, in Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia. And

Paul Dawalibi:

it's hosted under the theme of gamers eight, your portal to the

Paul Dawalibi:

next world. So there's going to be events, concerts, festivals,

Paul Dawalibi:

shows, tournaments, $15 million prize pool. And what they're

Paul Dawalibi:

saying is, and this is a quote from the chairman of the Saudi

Paul Dawalibi:

esports Federation says, with an estimated 23, and a half million

Paul Dawalibi:

gamers across the country, almost every home in the kingdom

Paul Dawalibi:

as someone with a deep passion for gaming, this passion has for

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming has long been a source of pride for Saudis. And they talk

Paul Dawalibi:

a bit about how it's part of vision 2030 for Saudi Arabia, so

Paul Dawalibi:

I wanted to put those two next to each other. I'll add just a

Paul Dawalibi:

quick third story, which is a bit sillier but Pizza Hut

Paul Dawalibi:

launching their first ever esports tournament in the Middle

Paul Dawalibi:

East. And people competing for $15,000. All the big esports

Paul Dawalibi:

teams in the Middle East are going to be competing, obviously

Paul Dawalibi:

much smaller dollars here, but I thought Pizza Hut is a big

Paul Dawalibi:

Western brand. So I thought that was interesting to add into the

Paul Dawalibi:

mix. So three stories here. Let me just get to this. Adam says

Paul Dawalibi:

have to head out early this week have a great battle. Adam,

Paul Dawalibi:

thanks for coming. I really appreciate it. Three stories

Paul Dawalibi:

here all about Saudi Arabia's ambition and gaming. I want to

Paul Dawalibi:

open it up guys to some sort of general discussion, but is a

Paul Dawalibi:

savvy gaming group slash p if not starting to feel a lot like

Paul Dawalibi:

Tencent here almost like is that is this is this the Tencent

Paul Dawalibi:

playbook in your mind?

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, that was basically going to be my take. I

Jeff Cohen:

mean, they're quickly becoming one of the bigger investors in

Jeff Cohen:

the gaming space. You know, it's it's it is exactly almost the

Jeff Cohen:

Tencent playbook. The only other company that I can think of

Jeff Cohen:

that's even really close in terms of the investments. And

Jeff Cohen:

the scale is probably Animoca in web three, where they sort of

Jeff Cohen:

seem to just be anytime you see a new story that this company

Jeff Cohen:

got funded, and they seem to be in the cap table. So yeah, I

Jeff Cohen:

mean, it's another big, big one. I mentioned that you continue to

Jeff Cohen:

see how they sort of tie all these things together. Because

Jeff Cohen:

we've talked a lot about how these are minority stakes,

Jeff Cohen:

they're clearly not, they don't have control, obviously, when

Jeff Cohen:

you give someone a billion dollars, that's going to come

Jeff Cohen:

with strings, some sort of strings attached to it. So I

Jeff Cohen:

want to see how they ended up exerting their influence and

Jeff Cohen:

kind of piecing some of these companies together not not in a

Jeff Cohen:

formal sense, but like in a almost like, what's the term in

Jeff Cohen:

South Korea, right? The chi ball, like where it's like,

Jeff Cohen:

okay, you know, maybe thinking about this from a web three

Jeff Cohen:

angle, like, we always talk about interoperability, how it's

Jeff Cohen:

impossible, because no companies are gonna want to work with each

Jeff Cohen:

other. Well, turns out if you have maybe this a common

Jeff Cohen:

investor that's pushing this, maybe that's one way to get

Jeff Cohen:

games from embracer to connect with Nintendo, and maybe that's

Jeff Cohen:

an extreme example. But, you know, if someone ends up owning

Jeff Cohen:

10 15% of each of these companies, they can exert a lot

Jeff Cohen:

of influence and, and sort of make some of these things happen

Jeff Cohen:

that probably wouldn't otherwise.

Paul Dawalibi:

So let me let me riff off of that, Jeff, and

Paul Dawalibi:

asked two questions to all to all of you. One is, do we

Paul Dawalibi:

believe Tencent extracted synergies across their

Paul Dawalibi:

investment portfolio because I think that, at least in my mind

Paul Dawalibi:

is a bit of a question mark, right, like, Tencent has

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely been massively successful, because they made

Paul Dawalibi:

bets on gaming companies, because gaming has grown right

Paul Dawalibi:

and so we could argue, Piaf here and savvy gaming equal going to

Paul Dawalibi:

be equally successful because we all believe gaming gaming is

Paul Dawalibi:

going to continue to grow. But it's the synergies piece that

Paul Dawalibi:

I'm not sure Tencent did anything with? And I'm not sure

Paul Dawalibi:

here there will be anything to do. I would love a bit of

Paul Dawalibi:

conversation around that. And then second point is like, do we

Paul Dawalibi:

believe that there are if we say Saudi Arabia is going to spend

Paul Dawalibi:

Piaf is going to spend pick a number $30 billion on gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

companies over the next five years, right? Is there a better

Paul Dawalibi:

play than buying big chunks of big developers like Nintendo or

Paul Dawalibi:

embracer? and reassess like, what would we give them as

Paul Dawalibi:

advice in your minds, guys? Like what what advice would you give

Paul Dawalibi:

Piaf? If you're looking at this, having seen what Tencent did,

Paul Dawalibi:

and knowing that there's dollars that they're going to spend on

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming over the next five years? And curiously chatbots? Also, if

Paul Dawalibi:

you guys think they should be doing something else with the

Paul Dawalibi:

money, Jimmy?

Jimmy Baratta:

Yeah, I'm just thinking through this because

Jimmy Baratta:

you throw a lot of questions at us. And all of them, I think,

Jimmy Baratta:

require quite a bit of thought to them. Low hanging fruit

Jimmy Baratta:

first, I can't recall something that Tencent did where they

Jimmy Baratta:

said, Hey, there's synergies here, you guys work together,

Jimmy Baratta:

you know, the way you would as a startup getting 2 million from a

Jimmy Baratta:

griffin or a bit craft and, and being paired up with other

Jimmy Baratta:

investments out there. I never saw that from Tencent, I could

Jimmy Baratta:

be wrong. But love, tried it with

Paul Dawalibi:

Huya endo you but it didn't. It didn't succeed, if

Paul Dawalibi:

you remember.

Jimmy Baratta:

And then, and also owns several other

Jimmy Baratta:

streaming properties, though. I mean, that was just their first

Jimmy Baratta:

attempt. I thought that they have a few, they had a few

Jimmy Baratta:

others that we had looked into. And we've covered on this on the

Jimmy Baratta:

show. No fair, fair point. What I liked about this, and Jeff

Jimmy Baratta:

just spoke to it at the end of his analysis was, you know,

Jimmy Baratta:

intense that did this too. But one Piaf is not acquiring small

Jimmy Baratta:

stakes here, right? They're outright acquisitions, or they

Jimmy Baratta:

are five to 10, or even longer percent, you know, percent

Jimmy Baratta:

ownership that vif is getting for these investments, which is

Jimmy Baratta:

enough weight to throw around in these conversations, and enough

Jimmy Baratta:

weight to have a voice. I think the difference here that I see

Jimmy Baratta:

really between the Saudis and Tencent are just the thing I

Jimmy Baratta:

love the most about how the Saudis are approaching gaming,

Jimmy Baratta:

because we've been saying it for weeks now, every time we cover

Jimmy Baratta:

them, I think a lot of us really appreciate and see what they're

Jimmy Baratta:

doing is, it kind of hit on the last story with pizza, which was

Jimmy Baratta:

kind of funny. It's bringing Western culture, it's bringing

Jimmy Baratta:

pop culture, and it's taking it to the MENA region. Because

Jimmy Baratta:

right now, there's a certain perspective, or, you know, if

Jimmy Baratta:

you're from certain cultures that aren't, you know, super

Jimmy Baratta:

global, you might just be focused on what's going on in

Jimmy Baratta:

your country or in your region. And the Saudis are asserting

Jimmy Baratta:

themselves in gaming. And gaming transcends geography as I was

Jimmy Baratta:

making the last argument with the Parisian story. And I think

Jimmy Baratta:

what they're doing is they're not only acquiring or, you know,

Jimmy Baratta:

interest in companies like Nintendo or ESL, but then

Jimmy Baratta:

they're taking that property and bringing it to their region and

Jimmy Baratta:

saying, hey, you know, we're actually a good host, we have a

Jimmy Baratta:

23, what was it million gamers here, and we have the ability to

Jimmy Baratta:

host events. And by the way, we're not. And the other

Jimmy Baratta:

question that you had, Paul was, why do the 30 billion over five?

Jimmy Baratta:

Or is there a better way? No, they're, they're hitting it on

Jimmy Baratta:

its head, what are you going to do spend that money and start a

Jimmy Baratta:

company from scratch, when you can just buy it the next company

Jimmy Baratta:

that's already been doing it successfully, and skip two to

Jimmy Baratta:

five years in the learning curve and in the process, so they're

Jimmy Baratta:

outspending? They're outperforming they're bringing

Jimmy Baratta:

all the flash and all the lights and all the attention on them.

Jimmy Baratta:

And I think they're executing at a very high level, where I would

Jimmy Baratta:

just say, to continue to do it, though, their biggest concern

Jimmy Baratta:

would be if they can continue to spend that way for five to 10

Jimmy Baratta:

years. And that's the funniest part, because that's the least

Jimmy Baratta:

of their concerns, I think, is the ability to spend that kind

Jimmy Baratta:

of money. The harder part, I think, for a lot of people, you

Jimmy Baratta:

know, execution, like you said, gaming is going to continue to

Jimmy Baratta:

go up, they're making good bets. And they have an attractive

Jimmy Baratta:

geographic region to bring events to, and they have the

Jimmy Baratta:

money to do it. I just, I can't criticize this on any level.

Paul Dawalibi:

Lindsey, Europe, thoughts on this?

Lindsay Poss:

Oh, man, you're gonna make me follow that. You

Lindsay Poss:

ask like 12 questions. I've already forgotten 11 of them.

Paul Dawalibi:

I didn't realize,

Lindsay Poss:

yeah, we asked a question so I can answer it. How

Lindsay Poss:

many original thoughts?

Paul Dawalibi:

Um, what? Let's try. Let's try and get more

Paul Dawalibi:

specific here. Do you find because I don't know if you

Paul Dawalibi:

noticed, but Saudi Arabia is doing something similar. I'll

Paul Dawalibi:

say similar on the traditional sports side with this live like

Paul Dawalibi:

golf league where an austere luring there, they're lowering

Paul Dawalibi:

the top players from the PGA Tour to go play on this Saudi

Paul Dawalibi:

owned golf tournament like golf league essentially. And

Paul Dawalibi:

literally some of the best golfers in the world at the

Paul Dawalibi:

peeks of their career are jumping ship from the PGA Tour

Paul Dawalibi:

to go play in this tour? Is there a future in around esports

Paul Dawalibi:

and gaming where you think it's not just about buying companies,

Paul Dawalibi:

but eventually they want to attract all the best talent?

Paul Dawalibi:

Like, what? Fast forward here five years? What do you think is

Paul Dawalibi:

the end result?

Lindsay Poss:

Okay, well, I'll just say, especially with the

Lindsay Poss:

left golfer, you clearly you can do anything you want when you

Lindsay Poss:

have the funds to do so. And they certainly have the funds to

Lindsay Poss:

do so I find it very intriguing that they're going after the

Lindsay Poss:

kind of gaming and esports side rather than the entertainment

Lindsay Poss:

side as much doing more league based on tournament based stuff.

Lindsay Poss:

And then like, you know, buying Twitch not that possible buying

Lindsay Poss:

Twitch like company. So I certainly think that it's

Lindsay Poss:

fascinating that they're going after the actual competition. I

Lindsay Poss:

think that because there's kind of a vacuum in the competition's

Lindsay Poss:

space for these high level productions, I still feel like

Lindsay Poss:

that. And Overwatch League has shown that, but there's still

Lindsay Poss:

kind of a vacuum for really high level productions. And really, I

Lindsay Poss:

don't know what the word is, but captivating leagues, I suppose

Lindsay Poss:

that then putting their money and weight behind it is

Lindsay Poss:

something that's going to have a big impact. I look five years

Lindsay Poss:

down the line, it certainly seems like the Middle East is

Lindsay Poss:

investing the most even compared to China, which China has the

Lindsay Poss:

benefit of already having the infrastructure, but the Middle

Lindsay Poss:

East has the benefit of having the funds. So I can't say that

Lindsay Poss:

everything is going to play out perfectly. And even like, I like

Lindsay Poss:

using the examples of lib golf League, because I've been

Lindsay Poss:

reading a lot about that, that might flop, it might just be

Lindsay Poss:

that they pay a ton of people to come over. And then those people

Lindsay Poss:

wind up leaving and coming back to the PGA. We don't actually

Lindsay Poss:

know. That being said, like, it's that there is a vacuum,

Lindsay Poss:

particularly in the live event space. And if they're going

Lindsay Poss:

after that, and putting their money behind it, then yeah, the

Lindsay Poss:

Middle East might be the place where all the best talent goes

Lindsay Poss:

in short time. Now, we're already seeing less and less

Lindsay Poss:

people moving there. From Western countries and all over

Lindsay Poss:

so obviously, God you the fact that you always ask prediction

Lindsay Poss:

questions just like hurts me, because data person, what do you

Lindsay Poss:

think?

Lindsay Poss:

Oh, wait, you see, I don't know. We'll see what pans out. It's

Lindsay Poss:

like, it's always like that. So.

Jeff Cohen:

But it's super exciting podcast. No,

Lindsay Poss:

I know, my actual heartache is I do think that are

Lindsay Poss:

going to be successful. Because like money is the thing that

Lindsay Poss:

they have in spades. And that's the thing that there's going to

Lindsay Poss:

be so they can basically keep, for better lack of words, like

Lindsay Poss:

throwing shit at the wall until something sticks. And they can

Lindsay Poss:

can afford to keep doing that forever.

Jeff Cohen:

Do you think? And then I guess I probably assume I

Jeff Cohen:

know the answer to this already. Given the money that they're

Jeff Cohen:

spending in golf, should they be spending more money on esports?

Jeff Cohen:

Or said differently? are? Are you less impressed by the

Jeff Cohen:

investment in esports? Because of the investment in golf? I

Jeff Cohen:

mean, we're talking about literally probably well over a

Jeff Cohen:

billion dollars in this league.

Paul Dawalibi:

Wow. So keep in mind, they're spending probably

Paul Dawalibi:

at least one order of magnitude more on esports than on golf.

Paul Dawalibi:

Right? Just the embracer investment was a billion

Paul Dawalibi:

dollars. Just the ESL investment was another billion that

Paul Dawalibi:

Nintendo won was cup few billion. I don't I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

remember the exact number, right, like the there's way more

Paul Dawalibi:

money being spent on gaming and esports than golf. So I think if

Paul Dawalibi:

you're asking me is I guess I was wrong. Everything's right in

Paul Dawalibi:

the world if you ask me. But let me just, I think what is

Paul Dawalibi:

overlooked here and I think is really smart. And is what

Paul Dawalibi:

Tencent has not done. And Tech Center has has been an

Paul Dawalibi:

incredible and we've often lifted Tencent as the model of

Paul Dawalibi:

good, like, corporate venture almost like how to do how to do

Paul Dawalibi:

m&a in the gaming space, right. Like they've just made some

Paul Dawalibi:

incredible investments, some incredible acquisitions. It's

Paul Dawalibi:

been hard to fault Tencent on so many fronts. I think the lair

Paul Dawalibi:

here that savvy gaming group, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,

Paul Dawalibi:

Piaf adds to that, because they have the money, they have the

Paul Dawalibi:

smarts to make these investments. Is this this like

Paul Dawalibi:

community layer that I think is critical for success in gaming,

Paul Dawalibi:

in any region, in any country in any, you know, in any sphere

Paul Dawalibi:

we're talking about where they're not only buying these

Paul Dawalibi:

companies, they're not only investing in these companies,

Paul Dawalibi:

but that like that games aid festival, right, where now

Paul Dawalibi:

they're activating their local population, they know that those

Paul Dawalibi:

23 million players can can can be the foundation for a much,

Paul Dawalibi:

much larger industry and a much larger piece of control of the

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming pie, if they get them involved and if they get them

Paul Dawalibi:

active, and I think that like grassroots kind of community

Paul Dawalibi:

involvement Taking the investment stuff and partnering

Paul Dawalibi:

with stuff at the local level makes just so much sense, right?

Paul Dawalibi:

If you're gonna buy ESL and face it might as well hold an eight

Paul Dawalibi:

week gaming festival. I think that's feels like the most

Paul Dawalibi:

obvious move if nothing else. And so I like that they're doing

Paul Dawalibi:

that. And I didn't see that from 10 cent, maybe I'm maybe not as

Paul Dawalibi:

close to 10 cent, but I didn't see it from 10 cent in the way

Paul Dawalibi:

I'm seeing it here. Guys, I want to move on, we got to get to our

Paul Dawalibi:

lightning round, because we have a bunch of stories. Before we

Paul Dawalibi:

do. I just want to say this livestream is very generously

Paul Dawalibi:

sponsored by YouGov. They've been tremendous supporters of

Paul Dawalibi:

the business of esports. And our weekly news show YouGov produces

Paul Dawalibi:

the absolute best data on gamers, games esports fans

Paul Dawalibi:

around the world. If you're even looking if you're even thinking

Paul Dawalibi:

about reaching the gaming audience, if you're if it's a

Paul Dawalibi:

thought in your mind, you need to be talking to you guys. At

Paul Dawalibi:

first they produce what they call living data. So it's data

Paul Dawalibi:

that's constantly being updated. It makes it incredibly

Paul Dawalibi:

actionable. So if you want to tap into this lucrative

Paul Dawalibi:

audience, you want to get reach gamers, you want to understand

Paul Dawalibi:

what they're all about, you really need to be talking to you

Paul Dawalibi:

got first I'm gonna put a link in the chat, go check it out. We

Paul Dawalibi:

have some free content there. It's yougov.com/b O E,

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely click on that make sure like pause, whatever you're

Paul Dawalibi:

doing, go click on that. Go show you give some love. And if you

Paul Dawalibi:

want to get in touch with them directly, you can reach out to

Paul Dawalibi:

any of us to myself to Jimmy Lindsey, Jeff, any of us are

Paul Dawalibi:

happy to put you in touch with you guys. We really appreciate

Paul Dawalibi:

it guys. And we really appreciate you guys so

Paul Dawalibi:

yougov.com/boe To learn more, or to see more. Alright guys, let's

Paul Dawalibi:

we got to get to everyone's favorite segments here. We have

Paul Dawalibi:

a handful of stories here to do the lightning round starts now.

Paul Dawalibi:

Guys, for those of you are new, this is how this works. I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

going to present a story, I'm going to do it try and do it

Paul Dawalibi:

very quickly. Each person Jimmy, Jeff and Lindsey, I'm going to

Paul Dawalibi:

go around to you one at a time, you'll have 30 seconds to give

Paul Dawalibi:

your hot take your opinion on this story. I unfortunately

Paul Dawalibi:

don't have my soundboard. So usually there's a bell that you

Paul Dawalibi:

hear at the end of those 30 seconds, but it's just gonna be

Paul Dawalibi:

me making a noise or something. And if you're in the chat, and

Paul Dawalibi:

you have an opinion as well, you got to be quick on it. It's a

Paul Dawalibi:

lightning round. I will try and get to your comment on each

Paul Dawalibi:

story. I'll use it for my time. So let's start guys with I

Paul Dawalibi:

promised an Apple story. I'm going to start with an Apple

Paul Dawalibi:

story. And this is iOS 16, which is the latest version of iOS,

Paul Dawalibi:

which powers iPhones announced at the Worldwide Developers

Paul Dawalibi:

Conference for Apple. And the headline here iOS 16 supports

Paul Dawalibi:

Nintendo's Joi cons report say you might soon be able to use

Paul Dawalibi:

Nintendo's controllers on your Apple device. I mean, there's

Paul Dawalibi:

not much more to say than that. Jimmy let's start with you.

Jimmy Baratta:

I don't even like using the Joi con on my switch

Jimmy Baratta:

when z is all out of her chair. I bought a separate controller

Jimmy Baratta:

and I prefer it so cool. I guess if that means that the one that

Jimmy Baratta:

Apple makes is also on the way but I'm more interested in that

Jimmy Baratta:

and I'm going to keep using my razor Kishi until further

Jimmy Baratta:

notice,

Jeff Cohen:

Jeff Yeah, I mean it's not a game changer until

Jeff Cohen:

Nintendo puts all of their content onto you know, the

Jeff Cohen:

iPhone which right now opposite they don't so if that was the

Jeff Cohen:

story then that would be pretty monumental. Right now it's just

Jeff Cohen:

a little bit of hardware compatibility, which shore I

Jeff Cohen:

guess maybe saves you if you don't want to buy something else

Jeff Cohen:

and you really want to to have a controller on your phone. Cool.

Jeff Cohen:

Let's say

Lindsay Poss:

yeah, this is definitely very novelty and very

Lindsay Poss:

fun. That being said, I still think probably for anyone who's

Lindsay Poss:

seriously gaming you're gonna want like razor Clichy devices.

Lindsay Poss:

I know a lot of parents who regularly put their phones on

Lindsay Poss:

other kids to let them play games maybe it'd be like kind of

Lindsay Poss:

fun for them but Jimmy you're gonna fall into your chair

Lindsay Poss:

because I actually use a regular controller when playing the

Lindsay Poss:

switch. This just seems kind of novel and fun and hopefully it

Lindsay Poss:

wasn't that hard. I don't think much of it

Paul Dawalibi:

am I a weakling by saying that? I hate having to

Paul Dawalibi:

hold up my phone or iPad while I'm playing. Like I just find

Paul Dawalibi:

that too heavy and too cumbersome. While I think the

Paul Dawalibi:

key she's cool it's like I don't want to have to hold this I find

Paul Dawalibi:

even the switch too heavy. And so you know anything a tad This

Paul Dawalibi:

makes its maybe seem a little bit better because you could

Paul Dawalibi:

just hold up these like JoyCons but the Joye cons are kind of

Paul Dawalibi:

bad controllers also. Not that exciting but cool to see Apple

Paul Dawalibi:

and intend to doing something together may be the start of

Paul Dawalibi:

bigger things to come. That's That's what I'll leave it at.

Paul Dawalibi:

Alright guys, let's talk about valorant valorant. In the news

Paul Dawalibi:

here, Luminosity Gaming leaves valorant. So Luminosity Gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

is the esports team owned by my my enthusiasm gaming. And the

Paul Dawalibi:

quote here it says We look forward to REITs upcoming

Paul Dawalibi:

structure for 2023. And we do not rule out the opportunity to

Paul Dawalibi:

participate in valorant esports. Again, down the road, so they're

Paul Dawalibi:

pulling away from competitive valorant. You know, obviously,

Paul Dawalibi:

they're letting go of their lineup, and they're saying we

Paul Dawalibi:

may revisit it now, this is we've talked about the

Paul Dawalibi:

restructuring that valorant are the structure that valorant is

Paul Dawalibi:

launching, luminosity, not going to be a part of that bad sign

Paul Dawalibi:

for valorant. Guys, or like, what do you read into this?

Paul Dawalibi:

Lindsay, start with you?

Lindsay Poss:

Should we have a good take for this? I mean,

Lindsay Poss:

there's some things that valorant is going through some

Lindsay Poss:

things with Luminosity. Now, I don't know, I don't necessarily

Lindsay Poss:

think that this is a bad sign for valorant. They're still in

Lindsay Poss:

the early stages of building their league. So I would expect

Lindsay Poss:

some teams to come in and out. I feel like it's more of a I mean,

Lindsay Poss:

just I just feel bad for booziest. I feel like things

Lindsay Poss:

have happened since that one investor called the CEO

Lindsay Poss:

resigned. And I don't know, it just seems like there's a bit of

Lindsay Poss:

shaking up going on there that makes me more nervous for them

Lindsay Poss:

than it does for them state about esports I guess

Jeff Cohen:

I actually agree with Lindsay's take there. I

Jeff Cohen:

think this probably sounds more about the state of enthusiast

Jeff Cohen:

and kind of their investments into more esports teams than it

Jeff Cohen:

does about anything we should read into about power and the

Jeff Cohen:

league being not viable. I think enthusiast is under pressure,

Jeff Cohen:

the management team is under pressure to probably get to

Jeff Cohen:

profitability with the way the market is and the act of a

Jeff Cohen:

shareholder. So they probably looked at this as a you know, a

Jeff Cohen:

lead, it's still in its infancy and maybe isn't worth putting in

Jeff Cohen:

the investment now, despite the fact that it could be worthwhile

Jeff Cohen:

down the road on making kind of a short term shareholders.

Jimmy Baratta:

Right, absolutely terrible move by luminosity.

Jimmy Baratta:

This is one of the hottest games out right now this new structure

Jimmy Baratta:

to shake things up, they have a chance to dominate the fan base

Jimmy Baratta:

dominate the audience make a big splash in this league. I like

Jimmy Baratta:

Jeff and Lindsay's takes because it reminds me of when 100

Jimmy Baratta:

Thieves pulled out a Call of Duty because they didn't want to

Jimmy Baratta:

pay the outrageous franchise fee only to come back a year later

Jimmy Baratta:

after they had gotten the funding and can only speculate

Jimmy Baratta:

as to what their options or abilities are. That's preventing

Jimmy Baratta:

them from taking advantage of this. But if Riot comes out with

Jimmy Baratta:

with something, you jump on it, it's kind of the name of the

Jimmy Baratta:

game for the last five, seven years. So I just think this is a

Jimmy Baratta:

big misstep.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, my quick take on it is I'm sort of with

Paul Dawalibi:

Jeff on this one. I think it's it's enthusiast being under the

Paul Dawalibi:

gun and they'll they dump the asset that they think is the

Paul Dawalibi:

least performing and and this sort of fits with a comments I

Paul Dawalibi:

made in a digitais article that or that I'll post in the chat

Paul Dawalibi:

here on some of the chats where you know, I think a lot of these

Paul Dawalibi:

esports teams or are struggling right it's those no surprise and

Paul Dawalibi:

you know, a game like valor, it's relatively niche still. And

Paul Dawalibi:

enthusiast under the gun. I think this is the result. So I'm

Paul Dawalibi:

with I'm with Jeff on that one. Jimmy, this one's going to be

Paul Dawalibi:

close to you. So we'll start with you on this one. And this

Paul Dawalibi:

is excellent in the news. It says Las Vegas is first ever

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming cabanas let clubbers compete while they party. The

Paul Dawalibi:

innovative gaming experience was produced by exit the fast

Paul Dawalibi:

growing esports. org and lifestyle brands so drays beach

Paul Dawalibi:

club in Las Vegas, they have cabanas where you can actually

Paul Dawalibi:

play video games so they have gaming consoles, large screen

Paul Dawalibi:

TVs state of the art sound systems all in the cabana.

Paul Dawalibi:

There's a photo here if you're watching this on YouTube or if

Paul Dawalibi:

you're watching it live here you can see this what the cabana

Paul Dawalibi:

looks like very much Las Vegas club cabana with consoles and

Paul Dawalibi:

video games. Jimmy This is a I'm you're a little biased on this

Paul Dawalibi:

one. But you're

Jimmy Baratta:

so this is obviously one of mine because

Jimmy Baratta:

the EQ set great, great event it was super successful. Lil Wayne

Jimmy Baratta:

was one of the performers pretty cool. Personally, I just don't

Jimmy Baratta:

like gaming or can't see the appeal of gaming at a loud party

Jimmy Baratta:

where I can't hear the game audio where everyone's watching

Jimmy Baratta:

me. But I've seen so many tiktoks and so many Instagram

Jimmy Baratta:

videos of people that are playing fortnight and winning in

Jimmy Baratta:

front of a party that just goes wild when you do well because

Jimmy Baratta:

it's something to watch and something to do. I might be aged

Jimmy Baratta:

out of this one. And so I'm hoping that our pulse or

Jimmy Baratta:

temperature read on gaming culture and on youth culture is

Jimmy Baratta:

is greater than my own personal one. So I am bias it's not for

Jimmy Baratta:

me but I has my full support. Jeff

Jeff Cohen:

Yeah, I've always been somewhat bearish on this. I

Jeff Cohen:

think Jimmy, you actually just brought up an interesting

Jeff Cohen:

scenario that maybe I hadn't really thought about how it's

Jeff Cohen:

not necessarily Oh, all about the person playing the game. It

Jeff Cohen:

could also be, it could actually be pretty entertaining for the

Jeff Cohen:

community, like the crowd, and the friend group watching the

Jeff Cohen:

person playing. So maybe that does add a little bit to it,

Jeff Cohen:

where it's just part of the atmosphere. But in general, I

Jeff Cohen:

just don't see a lot of like, enthusiasm for people to pay a

Jeff Cohen:

lot of money to go to a nightclub, and then sit in a

Jeff Cohen:

corner and play video games. Like it's just, it's not really

Jeff Cohen:

what you do when you go to a nightclub. That's not why you're

Jeff Cohen:

at the nightclub. Could it do well for like Nish events,

Jeff Cohen:

little bachelor parties, maybe that go during the day, and it's

Jeff Cohen:

a little quieter? So they play a little Madden or valor and or

Jeff Cohen:

fortnight? Sure, it could but like, I don't think this is

Jeff Cohen:

going to change, you know, the nightclub world or the esports

Jeff Cohen:

world or the gaming world. But it's a cool, it's a cool little

Jeff Cohen:

collaboration. Let's see.

Lindsay Poss:

Okay, I heartily disagree with you. And again, I

Lindsay Poss:

don't know when Jeff became an expert that night club,

Lindsay Poss:

considering his favorite activities, like go to mattress

Lindsay Poss:

order to butter cakes and be in bed by 10pm. Anyways. What I

Lindsay Poss:

think this is actually really cool, because I think it's

Lindsay Poss:

awesome marketing. And I think in a world where especially

Lindsay Poss:

drays and I Club is a huge kind of influencer type of

Lindsay Poss:

playground, adding more tech and adding things and more people

Lindsay Poss:

can catch moments to share on social media is going to be

Lindsay Poss:

huge. I think that this is not an experience for people who are

Lindsay Poss:

serious gamers are going to go but people are going to do is go

Lindsay Poss:

out and be like, Look at this cool thing that I did and share

Lindsay Poss:

it on social media and the next person is going to happen to do

Lindsay Poss:

the same thing. I don't think this is going to like, eat

Lindsay Poss:

massive or be reasonable people go to Vegas or anything like

Lindsay Poss:

that. But whenever nightclubs or things like that can add these

Lindsay Poss:

features, we've seen the photo walls get added, we've seen the

Lindsay Poss:

drinks on fire get added, like these are just things that that

Lindsay Poss:

simply that people can post and talk about, and feel like

Lindsay Poss:

they're really cool doing it. And I think this is another

Lindsay Poss:

example of that. So for that reason, I think it's gonna be

Lindsay Poss:

really successful.

Jeff Cohen:

What is success in this case? Right, like, who

Lindsay Poss:

cares about it, sharing it, getting people into

Lindsay Poss:

it. Like I said, I mean, this is the same reason why people pay

Lindsay Poss:

to get into like different parties in Las Vegas. Like

Lindsay Poss:

they'll just walk into trays for free. You pay because there's

Lindsay Poss:

something in there that you want to see something that you want

Lindsay Poss:

to do whatever it might be, you want to post the fiction when

Lindsay Poss:

you want to create doubt that like you want to do the whole

Lindsay Poss:

Vegas thing. I think for a large subset of people like this,

Lindsay Poss:

that's what this is gonna do.

Paul Dawalibi:

I mean, my buzzer my buzzer.

Lindsay Poss:

Jeff has to follow up on my phone.

Paul Dawalibi:

I'm with Lindsey on this one. I'll tell you, I

Paul Dawalibi:

wanted to hate this. I wanted every fiber of my being wanted

Paul Dawalibi:

to hate this. Like, I want to be in my basement with the lights

Paul Dawalibi:

off about you know, the $1,000 gaming headset, the custom

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming PC, my whole setup the screens, right? Like I have one

Paul Dawalibi:

that's gaming to me, that's how I game. And so I wanted to hate

Paul Dawalibi:

this, but then I thought about it on the flip side. And it's

Paul Dawalibi:

like, if someone invited me to drays nightclub if Lindsay said,

Paul Dawalibi:

Hey, Paul, we're in Vegas for some conference. Let's go to

Paul Dawalibi:

drays nightclub tonight, right? My immediate answer would

Paul Dawalibi:

normally be No, right? Like, I have no interest in nightclubs

Paul Dawalibi:

whatsoever. I don't want to drink. I don't want to dance. I

Paul Dawalibi:

don't want to do any of this, right? Like, none of this is

Paul Dawalibi:

appealing to me. And I know I'm not alone in this. But tell me

Paul Dawalibi:

hey, we're gonna sit in the cabana. They're gonna serve you

Paul Dawalibi:

food and drinks. And you get to play video games. And and I

Paul Dawalibi:

don't know, all of a sudden I have a reason to go. I think it

Paul Dawalibi:

it's it's maybe the only the only time I would ever agree to

Paul Dawalibi:

go to a nightclub literally the only time if if someone said,

Paul Dawalibi:

Hey, you can play video games in the corner and not be bothered.

Paul Dawalibi:

I kind of love the idea. And so it opens up nightclubs, I think

Paul Dawalibi:

to a whole new audience. And it opens that audience up to

Paul Dawalibi:

nightclubs. And I think people like a lot of people I know a

Paul Dawalibi:

lot of men go to nightclubs to meet women. I don't know there

Paul Dawalibi:

may be a subset of women who start going to these nightclubs

Paul Dawalibi:

and are impressed by instead of how a guy is dressed or his

Paul Dawalibi:

dance moves by how well he plays, you know, Apex on Xbox. I

Paul Dawalibi:

don't know I kind of liked that work. That's right. This is a

Paul Dawalibi:

move in the right direction. So anyway, let me let me get to

Paul Dawalibi:

these comments here. Angela says I like it to Lindsay Clinton

Paul Dawalibi:

sparks ideas turned to gold roth plant fans of Clinton obviously.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yes moments agreed. Chris says great play for gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

normalization versus growing the market via an esports arena. I

Paul Dawalibi:

mean, Chris I think at least I agree with that. I think Lindsey

Paul Dawalibi:

agreed with that also but in the esports arenas are being done to

Paul Dawalibi:

death right something difference new. Lucas is I don't know Paul

Paul Dawalibi:

sounds like you're afraid of cranking night He's in a

Paul Dawalibi:

fortnight solo game at the bar. Now that I'm saying that's it,

Paul Dawalibi:

this is the total appeal, I could show off my gaming

Paul Dawalibi:

superiority, right I can. This is, this is exactly this is

Paul Dawalibi:

exactly why I love this but that it's a public forum for me to

Paul Dawalibi:

show off to a crowd of people who would not normally care

Paul Dawalibi:

about gaming, just how much better I am than them all right.

Paul Dawalibi:

Let's move on. We got one less story here and it's we're going

Paul Dawalibi:

to end on this story. It's a bit of a silly one. It's razor in

Paul Dawalibi:

the news here but I like covering razor stuff. And the

Paul Dawalibi:

headline here is razor partners with to me for esports inspired

Paul Dawalibi:

bags we talk a lot on the show about furniture like chairs and

Paul Dawalibi:

things like that. This is a luxury luggage brand or bag

Paul Dawalibi:

brand backpacks, luggage etc. To me partnering with razor to make

Paul Dawalibi:

a sling bag backpack and a carry on luggage. All in like black

Paul Dawalibi:

and razor green but it's all done by to me which is a high

Paul Dawalibi:

end you know luggage producer and they have USBC ports for

Paul Dawalibi:

charging and stuff like that. So very quickly guys, Jimmy start

Paul Dawalibi:

with you. You love this you hate this.

Jimmy Baratta:

I wanted to love it. I use to me luggage. All my

Jimmy Baratta:

luggage is to me. It's just what I grew up with and what I know

Jimmy Baratta:

and I love Razer as well but the price points are ridiculous like

Jimmy Baratta:

these are way overpriced compared to to these regular

Jimmy Baratta:

regular goods. So even though I would use the luggage, the sling

Jimmy Baratta:

the backpack, I'm just not going to do it because to me is

Jimmy Baratta:

already inexpensive luxury brand and why did they have to upsell

Jimmy Baratta:

me because I like video games. Let's just pass so I wanted to

Paul Dawalibi:

there's only 1337 units being made because that

Paul Dawalibi:

spells lete its old, old kind of gaming mean, Jeff

Jeff Cohen:

I mean a limited edition is cool. They should

Jeff Cohen:

sell an NFT with it really get people going. But that's not

Jeff Cohen:

this is not for me. I don't I don't I don't do to me. I don't

Jeff Cohen:

know what I do. But it's do works. It doesn't have a brand.

Jeff Cohen:

Lindsey

Lindsay Poss:

Jeff, where's his Instagram ad? Let's be clear.

Lindsay Poss:

This is coming

Paul Dawalibi:

really sluggish Swedish

Lindsay Poss:

vacation was really a Um, no, I don't really

Lindsay Poss:

find this interesting at all. Usually razor does like cool and

Lindsay Poss:

innovative things. Jimmy straight Jimmy does make really

Lindsay Poss:

nice luggage razor makes really nice gaming stuff. I'm not

Lindsay Poss:

surprised that they together made a nice gaming luggage

Lindsay Poss:

thing. But I'm glad that they just did this limited edition.

Lindsay Poss:

This seems like just something that I would have wanted to do

Lindsay Poss:

and it's probably I would think it's still going to sell

Lindsay Poss:

decently but it's just not it's not that exciting to me.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yeah, the challenge for me is maybe the

Paul Dawalibi:

mismatch and this is obviously what razor was going for right?

Paul Dawalibi:

They partner with to me because they want to take the razor

Paul Dawalibi:

brand more upscale. They want consumers to think of Razer as a

Paul Dawalibi:

luxury brand so they partner with a luxury brand. The problem

Paul Dawalibi:

is as a to me buyer right part of the reason you buy and spend

Paul Dawalibi:

a lot of money on Tumi luggage is you want other people to be

Paul Dawalibi:

like, oh, like you want other people to notice your you know,

Paul Dawalibi:

$2,000 luggage. And if you slap razor branding all over it like

Paul Dawalibi:

I don't know if it has the same luxury recognition. And so I

Paul Dawalibi:

don't know how many too many buyers are going to be all over

Paul Dawalibi:

this. And I think it's probably too overpriced for the razor

Paul Dawalibi:

buyers. And so it feels a little no man's land even though I love

Paul Dawalibi:

it like I actually really love even love the color scheme, and

Paul Dawalibi:

I would probably buy it so but you know that's that's just me.

Paul Dawalibi:

All right, guys, that that wraps up this week's lightning round

Paul Dawalibi:

guys, I want to I want to say a couple of things first,

Paul Dawalibi:

definitely tune into this week's podcast great episode. Make sure

Paul Dawalibi:

also you're watching all the office hours with the professor

Paul Dawalibi:

William has been doing an amazing job if you haven't

Paul Dawalibi:

watched that series yet. It's a lot of fun. He dives into one

Paul Dawalibi:

topic does a deep dive on one topic. It's a lot of fun, and

Paul Dawalibi:

subscribe to business to be sports everywhere on Tik Tok on

Paul Dawalibi:

Instagram, on LinkedIn on YouTube, or YouTube has been

Paul Dawalibi:

growing like crazy. So we appreciate that. So keep it up.

Paul Dawalibi:

Keep sharing our content. We really appreciate it. Thank you

Paul Dawalibi:

all to everyone who came who showed up who commented, all of

Paul Dawalibi:

you guys. We really appreciate you doing that. Bring your

Paul Dawalibi:

friends bring your colleagues next time. We do this because we

Paul Dawalibi:

love doing it with you guys. I mean without you. There'd be

Paul Dawalibi:

almost no reason to do this. Jimmy. Thank you as always,

Paul Dawalibi:

Lindsay. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you. Don't forget guys the most,

Paul Dawalibi:

most most important thing. The future is fun. We'll see guys

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