Business of Esports - 231. Gaming & Web 3.0 – FTX SALT Crypto Bahamas 2022 LIVE

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Announcer:

Welcome to the business of esports podcast, the

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official podcast of esports. We explore the intersection of

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business and esports, one of the fastest growing industries in

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the world and the future of fine. Please welcome your host,

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Paul esports. Prophet Dawalibi, the business of esports podcast

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begins now.

Unknown:

Hello, hello. Okay, this is by far the most exciting

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panel of the whole conference. So welcome to gaming, and web

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three collide everyone. excited me today, guys. So these guys

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are pretty exciting, right? These are some of the biggest

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kind of gamer, conversationalist developers investors. I mean,

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we've have kind of the range here. So I'm gonna let these

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guys introduce themselves, or 30 seconds tops, starting with Paul

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at the end.

Paul Dawalibi:

So I guys, I'm Paul Dawalibi, more commonly

Paul Dawalibi:

known as the prophet of esports. Let's go. I host a podcast

Paul Dawalibi:

called the business of esports. I also own a media company

Paul Dawalibi:

gaming and Metaverse, media company. So we produce a ton of

Paul Dawalibi:

content, including the meta business podcast, and for the

Paul Dawalibi:

last 20 years, I was also a VC. So that's my background venture

Paul Dawalibi:

capital and startups.

Unknown:

All right. Good morning, everyone. My name is

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Greg land dager. I'm a family office investor we are stage

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instructor agnostic, fell down the rabbit hole in crypto in

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2014. And evolve that investment thesis into gaming in 2017 and

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subsequently made about 60 investments in the web three

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space.

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Hello, my name is Jace Hall. I am video gaming video gamer my

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company I've co founded with Rick Fox and a few other fine

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gentlemen called high def. Focused on Triple A video game

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development that includes diverse and diversity and

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inclusion as a form of new new ideas. We are very focused on

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making sure that the products that we build are forward

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thinking and when it comes to things like web three, my

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background is founding Warner Brothers interactive

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entertainment. Prior to that, I founded a company called

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Monolith Productions which I'll make video game so I'm a video

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game maker. That's what I do.

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An opinion hammer. My name is Clint sparks. I'm a Grammy

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nominated multi platinum producer, songwriter and DJ sold

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over 75 million records that has been shaping and shifting

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culture for almost 20 years now. And I fell into gaming about six

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years ago at the beginning of a company called FaZe Clan, where

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they were just a bunch of like popular kids online but didn't

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have any business model, or revenue streams went there to

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help bring that to what's now evaluated at a billion dollar

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company. And my goal when I got into gaming was to connect and

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integrate other cultures that were not familiar with gaming,

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because it's kind of what I've been doing. My whole career is

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mixing EDM and hip hop or bringing Hollywood to the

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streets. And so when I got to gaming started connecting music

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and sports and fashion and art, and it's now becoming really

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robust. I've since left Faze clan, and started this company

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right here exit which is now the fastest growing esports and

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gaming lifestyle brand in the world with a focus on diversity

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and inclusion.

Unknown:

Alright. So you guys have been in gaming for quite some time,

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right? And we're talking today we're talking about gaming and

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web three. So I think it's most fitting to start to talk about

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the evolution of gaming, what you've seen, and I think

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historically, you've seen that gaming, been able to incorporate

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money and earning and everything like that, where where are we

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coming from when it comes to the gaming industry? alike let you

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go?

Paul Dawalibi:

I don't know if a lot has evolved. I mean, I've

Paul Dawalibi:

been a gamer since I was like three years old. And other than

Paul Dawalibi:

grinding, like World of Warcraft in my basement. I think what has

Paul Dawalibi:

changed in the last three to five years is the mainstream

Paul Dawalibi:

recognition and adoption of the industry. The fundamentals

Paul Dawalibi:

haven't really changed. What has changed are the demographic

Paul Dawalibi:

dynamics. So the kids who grew up gaming, now have money to

Paul Dawalibi:

spend on gaming, and this is only accelerating so you have

Paul Dawalibi:

this huge attention and demographic shift that makes

Paul Dawalibi:

sort of the dominance of gaming inevitable. That's one of the

Paul Dawalibi:

big sort of trends I've seen over the last 1015 years.

Unknown:

I would say that, you know, it's speaking to It your

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point, the cultural acceptance of the activity of playing video

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games has become more and more relevant, because not only are

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people playing these games, but they are actually socializing,

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meeting their friends, it creating entire cultures and

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subcultures underneath this entire activity and it starts

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speaking to to forward concepts like meta versus, and avatars

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and ownership of of items. And this is why it's one of the

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reasons why I'm here is because the technology involved in

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blockchain is a facilitator of the continued evolution of the

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video game environment. And it's I think it's important that as

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we collectively, you know, the thought leaders that are all

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attending this, this conference, I think it's important for them

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to, to understand the gentle and delicate nature of how this

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industry chooses to approach video gaming as a conduit.

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There, you know, we could make some mistakes going in that

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direction, or we could do some real, real good, and empower

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people and empower ownership and empower, you know, attribution

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of creative content through gaming. So when I say,

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yeah, so if that brings an interesting point, because web

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three is all about decentralization, your owner

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owning something yourself. So what are I guess, in your case,

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JS? What are some of the considerations anyway, are the

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implications to that in the gaming industry today, so we

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kind of come from, you know, the big, these big, triple three,

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AAA sorry, gaming conglomerate that have owned everything at

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this point, and now we're trying to integrate web three into it.

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And that's been, in the short term, at least gonna have a

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really big impact on on what they do next. So what are you

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seeing in that case?

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Oh, I can go on and on on this topic. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna

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try to really limit it to some key points. Number one is the

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video game industry has evolved to where you have publishers,

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and those that control they don't want people to own

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anything, they want to own everything, which is why when

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you play World of Warcraft for 1000 hours, you can get that

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magic act, but it is not it is breaking their terms of service

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if you try to sell that to somebody else. That's the nature

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of that. When you see something like decentralization and and

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ownership coming in with this technology, it starts to pose a

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very important question of, shouldn't I own that X?

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Shouldn't? Shouldn't I be able to profit off of off of owning

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that axe? Right? And so the answer, of course, is the gamers

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themselves. want that. But there's also this long history

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of the video game industry, exploiting their consumer,

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relentlessly squeezing that orange so hard. So so when a

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publisher today tries to introduce blockchain technology,

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there's a form of rejection because they, they view it as

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more they're trying to exploit me even more for a game I've

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already paid so much for and so you have this industry

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resistance at the publisher level, who I don't know about

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this, this this crypto stuff, it's it's creating a bad vibe

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amongst our customers. So you have this demand, but you also

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have some cultural elements in the video game space. And I

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think the crypto space in that community can do a lot to

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communicate and bridge that gap and create a real opportunities

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because most definitely, the video game player wants to

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capitalize on the time they spend in video games, that's

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entirely just about what Twitch is, I play this game, watch me

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stream, I'm going to make money off of me playing the game. I'm

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trying to, you know, play to earn on some level it through

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that. So there's this all these third party things that create

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that, but there can be a much more direct and exciting

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opportunity for the people in this room and for the players

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themself.

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So Greg, then why is gaming such a big focus today? Like why? Why

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is everybody talking about gaming as it relates to web

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three? Why is this even a panel or discussion today?

Unknown:

So I think it's the numbers. I mean, there's 170 million

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Bitcoin wallets, which is it's a big number from where we've been

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a few years ago. But you have 3 billion people who are gaming

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every day. And when you talk to people, everyone says, Oh,

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that's not me. And then we're like, Well, do you do a

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crossword puzzle every day? Oh, yeah, that's I do that on my

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commute. You know, the numbers add up really quickly. I think

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part of the problem is, I think gaming is actually behind crypto

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and the evolution. If you looked at crypto pitches in 2015 2016,

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ever Slide had the word blockchain on it. It's like

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we're a blockchain company invest in us. And that's

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disappeared. Now companies pitch a problem. They pitch their

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solution. And if you try and get into it, they'll tell you, you

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know, we're using a blockchain or how that works. Gaming's in

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that early stage. Now you have all these gaming companies that

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are saying, Oh, we're using a blockchain. So invest in us. And

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Sam, earlier from FTX made the comment about a company he

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invested in, it's got to be a great game first. I mean, gaming

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is about games, pulses all the time. It's about having fun.

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That's where we've got to start. And then we've got to add on

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this additional layer of blockchain.

Paul Dawalibi:

The problem is the world of crypto in some

Paul Dawalibi:

sense, like, gamers are the most lucrative audience for any

Paul Dawalibi:

crypto company on the planet. Like literally, there were

Paul Dawalibi:

studies done 56% of all gamers polled and there was a large

Paul Dawalibi:

enough sample size polled said that they would abandon their

Paul Dawalibi:

physical bank account for a crypto wallet 56%. A huge

Paul Dawalibi:

percentage of gamers are prime crypto customers. The problem is

Paul Dawalibi:

the way the crypto world talks to them, and fundamentally

Paul Dawalibi:

doesn't understand like there's no industry failing more

Paul Dawalibi:

spectacularly at reaching gamers than the crypto world, which is

Paul Dawalibi:

maybe the great irony of it all. And happy to get into that. But,

Paul Dawalibi:

you know, that's one of the things I see, which is, you have

Paul Dawalibi:

this target reach audience. But this massive failure of how to

Paul Dawalibi:

communicate to them and capture them? Well, to his

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point, a lot of reason why that's happening is much

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like any, any industry that tries to infiltrate a new

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audience, especially a younger generation, they do it in an

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authentic way. And so what ends up happening is like some

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mystery company connects with some popular kids who these kids

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don't know better. They're like, Oh, man, they look like they got

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a lot of money, we can get a bag from them. And then they go out

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to market and they do some stuff that just is frowned upon or

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fails or makes people feel like they will use and then it starts

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making people frown from it and push away from it. Or like, I'm

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not falling for that crypto stuff, or I'm not buying those

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entities, because it's just the wrong combination. So you got to

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listen to the right people, you got to pay attention to the

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messenger, not just the message. And I think that's a lot of

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reasons why people get pushed back and don't understand. It's

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kind of like, when you listen to your parents when you're young,

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right? And they give you that Oh, that's cool. Like, Oh, Dad,

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you don't know what cool is. But if somebody that you think is

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cool, says that's cool. You got the same information, but you

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got it from two different people, based on your opinion on

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what you think about them. So it's the right people need to be

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talking to the right people, to get them to adopt this, when you

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have people that are, you know, corporate people that don't

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understand cool, they don't understand culture, they've

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never done other things to understand how to connect or

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relate or converse with these people. It's hard for them to

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convince them like this is the next wave, unless they're smart

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enough, or they know someone like Paul, that can convince

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them. Here's why it's cool. And a lot of young people that

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you're trying to adopt into this world, they don't want to learn

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they want to cheat code, they want to shortcut How do I make a

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lot of money? How do I do this. So you have to understand how to

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talk to that audience in a way that they're going to get it but

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also the educating them without them realizing there'll be an

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educated.

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I would say, also, to your point, it's thematically the

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different industries of video game players and that sort of

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the crypto industry, they have some fundamental differences.

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One is crypto blockchain is a newer technology. And normally,

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when a new technology comes out, it's finding it's looking for

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two use cases. So what you'll always see are like there's

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tokens out there, and then all those things. And they're there,

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they built, they create the token and then they try to build

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the utility around the token. Here's why the token is useful,

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right. And that's just a long road to go. But and there are

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companies doing that. And that's great. But when you're dealing

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with the video game industry and that audience, they are all

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about utility, everything that that they're used to when when a

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feature goes into a game, it's all about the utility of that

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feature inside of that. So the pitch of you know, Blockchain

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without utility coming over is a harder thing for them to

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understand and sort of get behind. But also, though,

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there's a huge opportunity, because a lot of these video

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games already have a whole bunch of environments and utility

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built into them. And blockchain could just be inserted into

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what's already there, and make it even more powerful and more

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useful. But that's that conversation happens less often

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and it tends to be more, you have gaming companies that are

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new, and they are focusing specifically on making a crypto

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game or something. And so they're trying to create this

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all first, instead of being able to articulate to the established

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players. Here's a way to integrate Rate, this greater

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utility and something that already has utility, I use the

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example of Disneyland, right they Disneyland has their whole

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environment, if restaurants and stuff dolls and stuff you can

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do. So the utility of creating the Disney dollar comes

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afterward, I'm just gonna make a Disney dollar and I can spend it

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inside of my world. But when you create the Disney dollar first

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and you don't have the Disneyland it's a much harder

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sort of thing and video games fortnight you name it, those are

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Disneyland's sitting there that aren't leveraging this very

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forward thinking technology called blockchain, which has so

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many different uses. Most people just only think of it as like a

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currency. That's just a slice of the opportunity that exists with

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this tech, I'm a huge supporter of, of the tech itself,

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that last minute, he said, should just be cut out of this

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video, and post it on.

Paul Dawalibi:

gamers who don't care about the tech, they don't

Paul Dawalibi:

care about the earning, they don't care about the owning,

Paul Dawalibi:

like, I did the same quest and World of Warcraft 1000 times

Paul Dawalibi:

over to get a mount that looked like a tiger. I didn't earn

Paul Dawalibi:

anything, I don't own anything. I still did it. And I know tons

Paul Dawalibi:

of people who did it, because it was fun, right? It was fun. And

Paul Dawalibi:

there was enjoyment in doing it and like trying to shove, earn

Paul Dawalibi:

and own. And God knows whatever other words you put in between

Paul Dawalibi:

down the throats of gamers, I think is never gonna work until

Paul Dawalibi:

you figure out the fun part. And until you figure out how to

Paul Dawalibi:

communicate how this underlying technology which it doesn't

Paul Dawalibi:

matter what it is, or what it's called, makes the game more fun,

Paul Dawalibi:

makes the game better in some way makes the experience for the

Paul Dawalibi:

gamer better. This is the only way I think you you reach them

Paul Dawalibi:

you you cook them no matter what we call it.

Unknown:

And that's the cool part. I was saying making it fun

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making so they don't even know that they're learning and like

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when you go to Disney, you don't own any pieces of Disney, you go

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there to have fun. And they create things there.

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And that was Greg was saying though, he as an investor, he's

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looking at the fun, like what's the actual game you know, like

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that. It's such a key piece.

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Look, I'm older I grew up with an Atari but 16 bit graphics is

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really not fun anymore.

Paul Dawalibi:

And making a fun game is not easy. Like Greg and

Paul Dawalibi:

I see these pitch decks all the time for Plater and games,

Paul Dawalibi:

right? And it's like, here's our economy and our token and all

Paul Dawalibi:

the great tech. And then we're gonna make this game. And then

Paul Dawalibi:

here's like, how we're making money. And like, it's one slide

Paul Dawalibi:

out of 25 about the game. We're like, wait a second, making a

Paul Dawalibi:

great game is really hard, huge studios with 1000s of developers

Paul Dawalibi:

spending hundreds of millions of dollars over years and years,

Paul Dawalibi:

still make games that fail. Like just making it a blockchain

Paul Dawalibi:

based game or a plate earned game or a play and earn game,

Paul Dawalibi:

whatever, doesn't doesn't solve the core problem of reaching the

Paul Dawalibi:

mass masses of gamers. And if

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you see kind of the big, the big guys, right, that

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are trying to incorporate web three features, and they're

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getting a lot of backlash anyway, right? And so there's

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still that kind of disconnect on the kind of how do you connect

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side? Or are they just ripping me off? Like I'm just here to

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play the game, you know, that's

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it, they see it as a monetization, then Bloomberg ran

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something over the past few days at 70% of gaming companies do

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not want to issue an NFT or a cryptocurrency.

Paul Dawalibi:

But part of the problem is the communication to

Paul Dawalibi:

the gamers like Ubisoft came out with NF T's in their games with

Paul Dawalibi:

Rainbow Six. And when it failed, the the noise I heard from the

Paul Dawalibi:

crypto community was, well they don't get it. The gamers don't

Paul Dawalibi:

get it. Like Well, that's kind of a cop out. Right? Like maybe

Paul Dawalibi:

we failed at explaining to them why they should like love this.

Paul Dawalibi:

And just sort of saying, well, they don't get it is not good

Paul Dawalibi:

enough. I think we could do a lot better.

Unknown:

I just don't think you have to front face. Blockchain.

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It's as of some kind of feature like like, if you're if you have

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a video game, and you're gonna play World of Warcraft, and you

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get the magic hammer, and the game just allows you to put it

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on your wallet. It just, you know, you just does. Most gamers

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aren't particularly interested in the compression technology

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that's being used by the video codec that's putting they don't

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care. Like they just they just want to be able to do the thing.

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And so part of it also is to speak to is these crypto, the

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excitement of the crypto community to come forward using

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crypto and you need to see and you want to say it and you want

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to advertise it you want to do it and look we're we're rainbow

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and six we're putting out the NF T's I don't care I you know just

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you can actually deliver that message and the functionality

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and get people using these things and having expectations

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of ownership, which is a whole thing because video games today

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are encouraging user generated content that is how they are

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growing at us. In now this user generated content, I think the

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users want to own. And they want to be able to monetize it in the

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way that they want to monetize it. What better technology to do

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that and figure out how to make use of the blockchain for that,

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right?

Paul Dawalibi:

I don't want to gloss over the scale of the

Paul Dawalibi:

opportunity, though, right? Like, there are 1500 people at

Paul Dawalibi:

this conference, something like that over these next few days. I

Paul Dawalibi:

mean, I was just at PAX East in Boston, big gaming conference

Paul Dawalibi:

speaking there. There were 130,000 people at PAX East on

Paul Dawalibi:

one day, it's the biggest conference, the city of Boston

Paul Dawalibi:

puts on the whole year, like we're not talking about one

Paul Dawalibi:

order of magnitude bigger, we're talking two orders of magnitude

Paul Dawalibi:

bigger. And, and this is the this is what needs to be

Paul Dawalibi:

cracked, I think for the crypto world. And I will say, tons of

Paul Dawalibi:

game developers, they're very few played around game

Paul Dawalibi:

developers, they're very few if any, I don't know if I don't

Paul Dawalibi:

know if you sign it. But I

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think a lot of people talk about like, it needs to be

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done, we need to do this, somebody needs to pay attention.

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But that's the same way you're saying put this horse cart

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before the horse is the same thing of saying you need to do

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this, you need to learn this, you need to understand it.

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Instead of saying you need to do that. You got to create things

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and do things that make them want to understand it, that now

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make them curious, that without you saying it's like being told

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what to do, as opposed to like seeing something calling you

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like, oh, I want to go do that. So recently, like a couple of

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weeks ago, we signed, made history by signing a rapper

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named T grizzly in GTA server live during a storyline and an

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exit building. Right? So and we also made exclusive merch for

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that job. So we're all wearing exit hoodies in the game. We're

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not saying go buy our hoodie, go do this. It's a cool event that

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you're like, This is dope. I want one of those too, because

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they're doing it. So it's almost like influencer marketing. But

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like subtly and without telling people what to do. Just show

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them what to do or make it in their face, that they're like,

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Oh, that's cool. How do you do that? You got to get people to

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want to know how without you telling them how.

Unknown:

Yeah, I think we're hitting a fundamental issue here because I

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think crypto as a whole anyway, as they haven't done it, they

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haven't done enough. But there's an education issue already on

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crypto as a whole, right? And we're saying that these gamers

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are a captive audience for the crypto community. And there's an

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education problem right already, like how do we explain to them

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what the advantages are? And so I think that either way, by

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doing cool shit, yeah.

Paul Dawalibi:

Clinton, he says, sell a feeling.

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Here, you sell a feeling? Are you selling a

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product or service, you're selling a feeling? When you know

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what your audience wants to feel, then you know how to

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convince them to do what it is you're trying to get them to do.

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But you must care enough to know what they want to feel their

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needs, not what you want, what do they want? And then once you

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figure that out, then you're able to sell better on what it

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is you want them to want.

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I think the irony is no industry is learned more about education

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than crypto. I mean, at least we don't explain what Bitcoin is

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anymore. But for the past 510 years, you know, we've been

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going around explaining, we're not drug dealers, there's a real

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use for this. I mean, it's great to hear the Prime Minister this

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morning speak, you know, we're excited about what's happening,

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we just need to take that same education and bring it to

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gaming.

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You know, one point that I want to drive home is if you've come

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to watch this, congratulate yourself because it is

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historically proven that new technology adoption in mass has

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been driven by porn, and also video game game playing. There's

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a there's a whole thing when Microsoft Word was a you don't

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need you know, you know, a faster computer to run a word

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processor. People are buying these computers in large scales

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to play video games and you know, use their Oculus and all

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that stuff. So, if a technology like blockchain is going to move

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quickly into mass adoption, the video the forefront video games

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is a perfect conduit for that opportunity, which is why I

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can't stress how important it is that the people attending this

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conference recognize that and really think about how to

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accomplish that goal. Because once once it's in the the main

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thrust of gaming it becomes ubiquitous. Everyone it like it

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is that critical that it makes its way into gaming and that's

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why I get excited with this panel. There's there's so much

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passion about doing that and making it happen and you know,

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and I'm as someone who I've made maybe 40 Aaa video games in my

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Harry Potter matrix, solid alien, first of all those these

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big titles, I've built them and I understand the technology on

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that side. I understand the technology on the crypto side

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and I can tell you there is definitely a very clear straight

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path for these things to come together. We are not talking

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about trying to mix oil and water or anything like that.

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This is a natural thing that is is going to happen needs to

Unknown:

happen. And for the people who are attending this conference

Unknown:

who want to make a lot of money, this is one of the areas that

Unknown:

you should take a close look at. And it's not just played around,

Unknown:

you know, played earn what has wound up getting sort of a

Unknown:

stigma attached to it in the gaming space. So if you move

Unknown:

away from that terminology, you know, owning is a little bit

Unknown:

better than earning play to own right, and then you let the I

Unknown:

own it, now I can make money off it in my own way, whatever. But

Unknown:

if you get away from the verbiage and just get to the

Unknown:

feeling, I think you're gonna see a lot of opportunity for

Unknown:

yourself as an investor, or as a technologist, or as even as a

Unknown:

video game player who's looking for the latest and greatest

Unknown:

bringing, you know, sort of this blockchain stuff into the space.

Unknown:

And on the other side, there's an opportunity for creators

Unknown:

versus the content users right, in creating that transparency.

Unknown:

And you know, exactly when someone owns something, and at

Unknown:

what point within the entire blockchain that it's been passed

Unknown:

around to. So there is an opportunity there, I'd be

Unknown:

interested to hear Clinton, what have you been seeing from a kind

Unknown:

of content creator versus the content user, like where we can

Unknown:

also kind of bridge the gap there? I know you had some ideas

Unknown:

on that.

Unknown:

I think Paul should start that one.

Paul Dawalibi:

Versus the gap between content creators and

Paul Dawalibi:

content, you're up against a really tall brick wall when it

Paul Dawalibi:

comes to ownership of content within gaming, right? So owning

Paul Dawalibi:

that sword owning that, you're talking about the equivalent of

Paul Dawalibi:

convincing big banks to decentralize, right this is,

Paul Dawalibi:

this is a monumental effort to convince triple A studios that

Paul Dawalibi:

they need to make all of their items in game not only freely

Paul Dawalibi:

open to trade, and buy and sell, but also interoperable between

Paul Dawalibi:

games, right? That is sort of the promise of the metaverse or

Paul Dawalibi:

web three. But you're talking about fundamentally companies

Paul Dawalibi:

that operate as walled gardens and have very little incentive

Paul Dawalibi:

to open up like, basically no incentive to open up. And if

Paul Dawalibi:

anything we've seen over the last few years, they're becoming

Paul Dawalibi:

more insular, they're shutting down third party sites that

Paul Dawalibi:

allow trading of items, for example, they want everything to

Paul Dawalibi:

happen within their own marketplaces. I think the

Paul Dawalibi:

impetus for this opening has to come from the players, and the

Paul Dawalibi:

players have to demand it. And for the players to demand it,

Paul Dawalibi:

like the owners of this content, they have to have a reason why

Paul Dawalibi:

it benefits them greatly. Otherwise, gamers, for the most

Paul Dawalibi:

part, are, are an apathetic crowd, right? Like, as long as

Paul Dawalibi:

they have their game, and it's fun. They're not, they will

Paul Dawalibi:

complain, but they won't do much, right. It's very vocal,

Paul Dawalibi:

but not a whole lot of doing and, and so I think the

Paul Dawalibi:

communicating the benefits is the thing that cracks the big

Paul Dawalibi:

publishers. But I don't see it happening anytime soon, I

Paul Dawalibi:

suspect, the opening will come either from the players, a

Paul Dawalibi:

groundswell from the players, or a player earn for lack of a

Paul Dawalibi:

better word game that actually succeeds in making a really

Paul Dawalibi:

great game.

Unknown:

I'm going to add to what you said. And just say that

Unknown:

one of the full disclosure of my company, high def, we spent a

Unknown:

lot of time figuring out and solving specifically these sorts

Unknown:

of things for because of the products that we haven't

Unknown:

announced that we're building and the deals we've done and

Unknown:

haven't announced. So I'm cheating a little bit here. But

Unknown:

I'll give you a good example of where blockchain sort of can

Unknown:

impact ownership and it can have a significant impact on user

Unknown:

generated content. Tik Tok is a really good example, where you

Unknown:

have people creating dances, and someone will take that dance

Unknown:

another tick talker, and might be more popular, and then

Unknown:

actually drive a bunch of views and make money off of that, and

Unknown:

the person who created it doesn't get credit. And there's

Unknown:

no way, you know, to copyright, you know, like there's a whole

Unknown:

process. So here's a good example of where blockchain you

Unknown:

know, where a video game company can partner with an original

Unknown:

creator like that. Use blockchain, create that

Unknown:

attribution, and then actually create an entire smart contract

Unknown:

system that can track all of this and make sure that they're

Unknown:

paid. And that starts to become really, really meaningful,

Unknown:

meaning they'll get paid every time someone does the dance.

Unknown:

Yes, there's a way to track that and like a song. Yes. So. So

Unknown:

again, I'm just kind of hinting at some of the stuff that we've

Unknown:

big brand, but but the point is, is the power that exists by

Unknown:

bringing blockchain into this space is significant and it's

Unknown:

going To be systematic systemically changing, because

Unknown:

once the users see, to your point, the use case why it

Unknown:

matters to them? It they're not going to settle for less.

Paul Dawalibi:

But jeez, Can I maybe maybe this is not a hot

Paul Dawalibi:

take, but I think maybe a hot take. I don't think we have yet

Paul Dawalibi:

stumbled on the killer app for blockchain within gaming.

Unknown:

No, I don't think we figured it out. No one has made

Unknown:

that yet. That's not out there.

Paul Dawalibi:

Yes, it doesn't exist yet. challenge or

Paul Dawalibi:

opportunity, whatever you want to look at it. I don't think

Paul Dawalibi:

anyone has cracked that?

Unknown:

Well. It's just like the music business, right? Like,

Unknown:

how long have artists like they're upset that they didn't

Unknown:

have access, they couldn't distribute themselves, they

Unknown:

couldn't do all those things. Now, technology has created a

Unknown:

way your own record label from your bedroom, you can literally

Unknown:

record your song mat, mix and master your song, distribute

Unknown:

your song, you have the social assets from your bed, your

Unknown:

enemies, and you can be your own record label now, but it took

Unknown:

time to get there. And that's where we're at with gaming where

Unknown:

these gamers are the artists, and they want to have more

Unknown:

control, they want to have more stake and they want to have more

Unknown:

ownership in their product and their masters. They want to say

Unknown:

if it's gonna sink in, but a TV show but

Unknown:

it doesn't exist. And you know why? Because who's incentivized

Unknown:

to build that? How do they, you know, that's part of the problem

Unknown:

is it's like Facebook, they own all the data, they give you a

Unknown:

free service, right? And then they own all the data, what why

Unknown:

would they be incentivized to build something that lets you

Unknown:

own all of your data, and then they rent it from you, I don't

Unknown:

think so like that. So who's gonna spend the money to do

Unknown:

that, and this is where you get the opportunities for new

Unknown:

companies to come into existence that are thinking in an entirely

Unknown:

different way about how to create value and opportunities,

Unknown:

not only for the company, but for the creators that are

Unknown:

inevitably going to be needed beyond just what you can do as a

Unknown:

company to create an entire community and, and build your

Unknown:

game around that. So

Unknown:

like music artists, you need enough gamers to make a stink

Unknown:

about it for someone to say, ah, these games, I mean, all these

Unknown:

gamers want this thing, I'm gonna go build it, just like

Unknown:

artists will like I want to distribute my own music,

Unknown:

somebody was smart enough to build a distribution plan. If

Unknown:

you

Unknown:

look at the historic model gamers have used they use

Unknown:

engines to develop their games. I mean, they don't gamers, I

Unknown:

mean, they don't go out and say I want to move a person. They

Unknown:

use Unity, they use epic. And that's what we need. We need

Unknown:

engines here when we get pitched on companies that are going to

Unknown:

develop a game and create a new blockchain. Um, there's some

Unknown:

great blockchains out here that can be used. Yeah, that's what

Unknown:

they focus on the game, make a great game, and use this

Unknown:

technology and it'll drive everything.

Unknown:

Enough gamers also have to feel like they need this. And they

Unknown:

want this, you know, smart people can see the future and

Unknown:

say, Oh, this should be available for gamers. But just

Unknown:

like artists, enough of them, were saying I need this that

Unknown:

someone didn't like, but that goes back to the beginning of

Unknown:

making them understand why they need it, or why they want it by

Unknown:

making them feel like they need it from doing cool shit that

Unknown:

they don't like, oh, how do you do that? Oh, well, it's through

Unknown:

blockchain. Well, how do I do that? And then they start, then

Unknown:

they all start typing in every one, then all of a sudden, Rick

Unknown:

Fox says, Let's start a company like that.

Unknown:

Oh, who's who's really holding the bag here is the crypto

Unknown:

industry or the gaming industry, because right now it feels like

Unknown:

the crypto industry needs the gamers a lot more, right. And

Unknown:

the added adoption is going to help crypto at least solve some

Unknown:

of the issues that they're facing, right with transferring

Unknown:

over to fiat, or doing, you know, these transfers over to

Unknown:

fiat. And so I guess my question is, how do you now make this

Unknown:

sustainable? Like, what? It's extremely complex, and we've

Unknown:

talked about a lot of like, complications and implications,

Unknown:

but I guess, what will you look at to invest at this point? Or

Unknown:

how are you going to invest at this point without

Unknown:

consideration? And where, like, where do you think it is really

Unknown:

gonna go at that

Paul Dawalibi:

point? I'll break it down into two parts. I think

Paul Dawalibi:

there's short term opportunity, which is crypto companies

Paul Dawalibi:

reaching out to gamers as a target rich audience, right? How

Paul Dawalibi:

do we get new customers? How do we get new users for whatever

Paul Dawalibi:

we're doing in crypto, no better audience to reach the gamers. To

Paul Dawalibi:

me, that's the very short term opportunity. That's what

Paul Dawalibi:

everyone in this room should be thinking about today. Longer

Paul Dawalibi:

term, it's how do we embed all of the great technology that the

Paul Dawalibi:

crypto industry has built into games into gaming into meta

Paul Dawalibi:

versus, and, and enhance the experience in some way? I say

Paul Dawalibi:

that's long term because I don't think anyone has figured that

Paul Dawalibi:

out yet. But that's how I would break it down short term and

Paul Dawalibi:

long.

Unknown:

I mean, the technology today still needs to be

Unknown:

developed for crypto let alone for gaming private keys is not

Unknown:

going to work for younger people.

Unknown:

Well, one of the problems is too is that companies since we're

Unknown:

talking about crypto, you can't expect people to listen When you

Unknown:

talk instead, you must learn to talk when they're listening. So

Unknown:

you must know where they're listening and what they're

Unknown:

listening to, and how they're listening to it, as opposed to

Unknown:

trying to push it through to them in a way that is foreign,

Unknown:

or they don't understand or don't realize the need or the

Unknown:

value of it yet. So it goes back to and I don't like using the

Unknown:

word education, although they gotta be educated. But when you

Unknown:

use words like this, I don't want to learn like nobody likes

Unknown:

school, you know, that means I don't want to read a book, game

Unknown:

or that's, you know, that's how they're gonna think. So when you

Unknown:

add into cool shit, and you create moments, and lifestyle

Unknown:

moments and cultural things, that these kids like, Oh, that

Unknown:

was that was so cool. Then they're like, how was that done?

Unknown:

And it's like, ah, we tricked you. It was to this, you know

Unknown:

what I mean? So it's like, it's like putting the baby medicine

Unknown:

in the food that the baby likes. And that's really the magic of

Unknown:

how you, you know, infiltrate someone's brain and life. But

Unknown:

that's marketing, you can have another?

Unknown:

I mean, at the end of the day, right? These gamers are all

Unknown:

about they, they're into playing their game, right? And how do

Unknown:

you then move on to say, Okay, well, how? Why do I care about

Unknown:

how do you get them to care about this other what I would

Unknown:

call like, the peripherals, right? Like, I'm really into my

Unknown:

game. And now you've got the crypto industry trying to get

Unknown:

these guys, but they're not an easy catch, right? They're,

Unknown:

kinda look, I think gamers want to own their stuff, that's for

Unknown:

sure. When they when they get a Counter Strike Skin that's worth

Unknown:

$25,000. And then their Steam account gets banned, and they

Unknown:

can't they, they just lose, right?

Paul Dawalibi:

My Counter Strike inventory is worth like, 300

Paul Dawalibi:

grand, that's my retirement right plan.

Unknown:

So So imagine you don't like steam and or valve is just

Unknown:

like, You know what, we're just taking it from you. Like, you'd

Unknown:

be like, Excuse me, that can happen, they can just do that.

Unknown:

The terms of service for playing Counter Strike, but it says they

Unknown:

can just do that. And I don't think gamers are okay, he would

Unknown:

not be happy losing $300,000 worth of rare skins. And so

Unknown:

right in there is an opportunity. Because you know,

Unknown:

gamers want to own what they have worked hard to get with

Unknown:

their gameplay. But remember, they did that for the fun. The

Unknown:

benefit is that they have this cool collectible. They didn't

Unknown:

specifically go in to try to do played around. There's a small

Unknown:

group of people who do that, but most of them, but if you

Unknown:

facilitate the ability for him to make sure he owns it, if he

Unknown:

could pull all his skins and put it on a on a nano ledger. He

Unknown:

would no one's touching that. Right. And so I think there are

Unknown:

some some low hanging fruit opportunities. I will say this,

Unknown:

the large publishers are not going to lead this at all

Unknown:

they're going to follow and they're going to follow but

Unknown:

grudgingly so if you're an investor in the any of the

Unknown:

crypto markets, a lot of people have made a lot of money when

Unknown:

they they need to put it somewhere they need to make it

Unknown:

work, they need to do something. So find those companies that

Unknown:

that are making video games that are forward thinking that are

Unknown:

making fun, useful product, get behind them. Right, and then

Unknown:

work with them to bring a real video game product into the

Unknown:

market becomes the killer app that you're that doesn't exist.

Unknown:

And then everyone's gonna follow, because it's gonna

Unknown:

happen. And I think it'll happen sooner rather than now paying

Unknown:

attention to this. You said earlier? Yeah.

Paul Dawalibi:

But there's an important insight there. And I

Paul Dawalibi:

you know, I know we're running low on time here, but I think I

Paul Dawalibi:

want to get it out here, which is, every time you hear web

Paul Dawalibi:

three or Metaverse at this conference, I guarantee you I

Paul Dawalibi:

will I will put money on the line. I will bet anyone in this

Paul Dawalibi:

room that what we call web three or Metaverse, 10 years from now

Paul Dawalibi:

will have evolved out of gaming, not out of crypto, it will have

Paul Dawalibi:

started as gaming first, right? Not as crypto forever.

Unknown:

I agree.

Unknown:

So get familiar with gaming guys.

Unknown:

So we've got to wrap up now but any last thoughts in terms of

Unknown:

you know, what you're doing and how you know, your lat just give

Unknown:

us a last plug before we head out? Please, let's start with

Unknown:

the Clintons.

Unknown:

If I need to add on to what you guys say and put more thought

Unknown:

into how you're marketing, how you're telling the story, who

Unknown:

you're trying to connect with, do more research on what impact

Unknown:

it's going to have what culture is it's going to talk to, how

Unknown:

would it spread, for instance, the reason I started accent was

Unknown:

because I realized being in the gaming space that no other or

Unknown:

really understands culture. They think culture is like the the

Unknown:

newest sneaker drop or a meme, right? They don't really get the

Unknown:

world they don't know how to connect with other cultures and

Unknown:

other audiences and demographics and races. genders, right? So it

Unknown:

was like Man, if you're going to build this giant company,

Unknown:

especially like you know the company has apple you have to

Unknown:

understand all these worlds if you want to try to make it

Unknown:

inclusive, and you want to maximize and reach more people

Unknown:

than just what's already there. So we already know who the

Unknown:

gamers are right? There's this A group of gamers, but it's like

Unknown:

what about all the rest of the world? That games but aren't

Unknown:

gamers and aren't part of the gaming lifestyle? They might

Unknown:

want to be? They might think it's cool, but no one's telling

Unknown:

them about it. They don't understand a cool way to connect

Unknown:

to it. They don't realize you can make $100,000 Playing games

Unknown:

a month in fortnight. They don't know they don't know this gaming

Unknown:

is a career. Right? So it's just understanding Where's what is

Unknown:

the open lane for you to run down and not just see this as

Unknown:

open lane understand the correct impactful way to go down that

Unknown:

lane so you don't get tripped up or you don't get tackled? And

Unknown:

you're like, oh, this lane sucks. Nah, you just kind of

Unknown:

sucked.

Unknown:

All right, we're gonna end there. Thank you guys, this was.

Announcer:

Thanks for listening to the business of esports

Announcer:

podcast. Check us out at the business of esports.com and on

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